When I first started practicing family law I would encounter a number of visitation enforcement hearings in which the custodial parent tried to excuse his or her failure to have the children visit with the other parent because “the children didn’t want to.” Occasionally, and much to my frustration, the judges would sometimes accept this excuse and not find the custodial parent in contempt. Early in my career I didn’t have an effective counter to these parents’ claims other than to hope the judge would enforce the order rather than buy the custodial parent’s excuse. It has been my more recent experience that, absent evidence of abuse, the court doesn’t accept these excuses as frequently.
However, in the interim, I have developed what I believe is an effective cross examination technique for a custodial parent who testifies that he or she won’t force the children to visit the other parent because the children don’t want to. I ask them what other things they expect their children to do that they don’t require them to do when they don’t want to. Can the children refuse to do their chores/eat their vegetables/practice their violin/brush their teeth if they don’t want to? Can their children drink bourbon for breakfast when they don’t want to drink milk? Can their children have sex with their boyfriend/girlfriend when they don’t want to spend the afternoon studying? Can their children go to the beach when they don’t want to go to school?
There’s a heck of a lot of things that parents force their children to do because they’re the parent and they decide what’s good for their child. Visiting the non-custodial parent–assuming the child really doesn’t want to visit and also assuming there’s no abuse going on–is one of those things the courts should be forcing upon the children and custodial parent. If the situation with the non-custodial parent gets bad enough, it should be the custodial parent’s obligation to seek an order reducing the other parent’s visitation, rather than simply denying visitation and expecting the court to not enforce its own orders.
Only one time in my career have I seen a child refuse to visit the non-custodial parent when the custodial parent supported the visitation and, in that case, the parties eventually agreed to forgo the non-custodial parent’s visitation when it became clear in (court-ordered) counseling why the child didn’t want to visit. I was hoping that the courts were getting away from letting children, with the support of the custodial parent, decide their own (lack of) visitation and that the courts were gradually seeing that this unwillingness to visit was frequently tied to the custodial parent’s disregard for the other parent. However, just today, I have discussed or been involved in three situations in which visitation has been denied because the custodial parent supported the child(ren)’s decision not to visit. It may be time to dust off my “bourbon for breakfast” script.
I have had full sole custody of my daughter her whole life, she is turning 15 in a couple months, her bio ex last year got out of prison and decided she finally wants to be a parent. So last year, the courts ordered reintegration therapy, which ended when the mother got sent back to prison for a couple months, fast forward to yesterday, shes back, we were in court, the judge listened to my daughter, who DOES NOT WANT TO SEE HER MOTHER, but yet the courts seemed bent on forcing her to visit, what can i do? My daughter was in tears yesterday after i told her, “sorry hunny, you have to see your mom”
This is complete b.s.
Is there a stepmother in the picture? If so you should have attempted termination of parental rights and stepparent adoption while the mother was in prison. You still might attempt this but it will be harder.
Failing that you tell your daughter that she only has one mother and she should make the best of the relationship that she can. If the visitation goes poorly you can always ask the court to terminate it.
Thank you for your prompt response, i really appreciate it. No, since our divorce 14 years ago i have remained single and raised my child, ive never received any form of support from the bio mother. My daughter was in tears yesterday after court when i told her i may be forced to take her to the 2hour supervised visits every other weekend. I was surprised the judge is forcing her after the judge listened to the reguest of the child. Ive explained to my daughter, that while i may be forced to take her, she (child) can choose to participate (talk) or not, my daughter wishs to tell her mother, who has been absent all 14.5 years that she does not want to do this. If and when the visit does happen, if the child chooses to go in and tell her mother she does not wish to participate and leaves, i will not force her to sit in a room with a stranger.
Ive told my daughter she can choose, and who knows, she might enjoy it. If i take my daughter to the visit, and the child goes in and decides to end the visit, is that contempt?
My husband and I have custody of his 16 year old daughter and have since she was 13. You kep talking about forcing her to see her bio mother just as we force her to do other not so fun things and potentially harmful situations. But we do not force her to do other things that emotionally abuse her and damage her ability to become a happy, productive adult, we keep her away from those things. Her 2 older siblings will have nothing to do with their mother, she doesn’t know their phone numbers or even where they live. She has men in and out of her life and is so verbally abhsive that our daughter has threatened to kill herself and we’ve had her in councling. Now why do her mothers desires to pretend to be a good mother out weight the child’s desire to not see her? If the 16 year old committed a crime, she’d be charged as an adult, but she’s not old enough to know how she wants to be treated? I agree with you for when the kids are small, but not when they are teenagers.
Tanya, seeing that you are not the biological parent you will never understand that logic behind the philosophy is having a child maintain the parent/child relationship with the noncustodial parent. With that said she is not an adult by law and therefore a visitation order is enforced to allow A noncustodial parent exercise their God given right to parent their child.
With that said IF there is truly abuse going on (which is different from an accusation or the resistance thereof) the custodial parent would have safety nets for the best interest of the child with restricted visitation of supervised visitation, but by no means should that decision process be through a step parent or foster parent and cannot be understood fully the ties that bind a child and parent.
First let me ask about the suicide issue. Did she attempt suicide or just threaten to kill herself? There is a big difference between the 2and can be as a result of many things and not just A noncustodial parent. Understand noncustodial parents are the easiest target as they are away and seeing that a child (most under 25) do not have the capacity to understand or reason why a dissolution of a relationship has happened and desire to make logical sense of it as the stability of family is where a child thrives and because the trauma is so great even through counseling they never address this issue of trauma and instability. On the flip side the same trauma is experienced by the noncustodial parent but in a much different level. The damage on the child is only compounded in the teenage years as they are also coming into their selves as they are on track to becoming adults.
What I say to you is this. Understand the emotional state of both the child and other parent as it will allow you to make better decisions in the best interest of the child. If you look at it as a single sided issue especially if you are not the blood parent you will make decisions that are a disservice to the child.
To say that non-birth parents cannot understand what a child needs is ludicrous. We are all humans, we have all had parents even if we were not naturally able to have our own children. We all have different experiences which may lead us to believe different things about parental bonds and the needs of children, but your close mindedness is astounding. I am a step-mother and an adoptive mother (two different children), I know that my step-son is safer without his biological mother who is incarcerated every year for all the crimes she constantly is committing. He has already had a couple of years of therapy because of her poor parenting skills. The assumption that people that can give birth are automatically decent parents is disgusting. I get the feeling that many of the people who post on this thread, including the lawyer, live in an upper class world full of custodial parents who use children as bargaining chips. Please understand that we live in a world of biological parents who beat, molest, and kill their own children. The assumption that a blood relative is any safer than anyone else is misguided at best.
Sarah,
Sorry if you are offended but your loaded accusations are over the top as what you claim has been said has not been said and is misinterpreted by yourself. Let me try to address your concerns.
1) You claim that our society is ‘full of molesters and abusers.’ The question is were you abused and what is your definition of abuse and molestation? Do you really think that generalization means that most if not all society has had a bad life? Really? I believe that my parents have made wrong decisions here and there but that doesn’t make them abusers. They are just human but your generalization would make all people, including yourself, unfit to be a parent.
2) To take offense because the issue of understanding the psychological toll on a biological parent is silly! You claim that foster/adoptive parents are exactly the same, but you are only partially correct. They are similar but different. Although they both have the ability to provide, care and nurture a blood parent has a slightly different tie regardless how much a foster/adoptive parent provides. This doesn’t diminish the role of a foster/adoptive parent rather explains the psychological matters and struggles a child may feel or experience. It is for this reason the majority of adopted children seek out their birth parents; to understand who they are. This normally doesn’t happen though until they are in their mid 20’s or later. The same normally happens in a divorced family. Although it happens there is much to have happen to bring restoration to that relationship and many times never gets to the point where it ever could or should be because the now adult child has a strange loyalty to both the birth parent and adoptive parents and struggle with that balance of loyalty. In your analogy you claim that foster/adoptive parents are better because they are human beings and some birth parents are bad. I don’t dispute the claim that some adoptive parents are better than some birth parents but that is not the case in every instance. I have seen bad birth parents as well as bad foster/adoptive parents and just because you are willing to take on that role electively doesn’t make one a hero as one who bears a child a perfect parent. It is no different than saying because you live in a house you understand the ins and outs of the construction of a house.
As for your ‘privileged’ comment it sounds like you may be bitter. Not all people on this blog, including myself, are ‘privileged’ or ‘rich.’ Just like not all attorneys are bad or assumed rich. It is sad that you decided to attach people in general rather than bring a quality discussion to an important issue. I don’t feel you would be able to understand the issue of parent alienation unless you lived it and I don’t wish that he’ll on anyone as that is not a privilege that you want attached to you. Most of us who have lived there have become homeless, jobless, abandoned by friends and family, struggle with depression, anxiety and PTSD and as a result have experienced health issues all on top of loosing every dollar they have and make as well as in extreme cases struggle with a substance abuse or suicide. So to say that an alienated parent is either unfit or a bad person I ask you to take a step back and take a large understand to the bigger picture. This is a dark prison that is imposed by a failing judicial system that adversely affects everyone involved and brings havoc on all.
In response:
1) Saying that the world is full of abusers does not mean everyone is an abuser. Perhaps my word usage was misleading to you. There are many abusers. A day does not go by that I do not read about a new way a toddler has been abused or killed by their biological parents. My point was that blood is not always better, because it is not.
2) I did not claim that adoptive parents are “exactly” the same as biological parents. I only claimed that it is unreasonable to claim that being able to reproduce makes someone a better parent. You are putting words into my mouth. I am a step-mother/adoptive mother, but I am also the child of a divorce and have a step-mother and step-father. My father is crappy person, but he was not physically abusive. I stopped visiting him when I was in high school, and even though he was always insistent on his rights as a parent, he did not take my mother to court for not forcing me to go. If he had, I would hope that the judge would have taken my perspective into consideration instead of deciding that it was in my best interest to be in contact with my biological father. Again, I did not say that adoptive parents are better, I said they can be and they definitely are in my situation. Stop putting words into my mouth. You apparently are bitter about something to read into my comment the way you did. Catering to a birth parent for the SOLE reason that they reproduced is wrong. If they are a good parent, they are a good parent, it doesn’t matter how the child came to be their child.
To recap, adoptive parent does not equal better parent, but CAN.
How is it the best interest of a child to be returned to bio parents who were such a danger to their children that they were taken away in the first place? The bio mother of my step-son AND adoptive child (yes, same woman, different fathers) has had FOUR children and has custody of one. Why does she have custody of that one? Because the bio father does not care enough to even attempt to establish paternity. That child is 3 years old, has lived in over 10 “homes”, including several hotels, has witnessed her mother being physically abused and has been molested by the mother’s husband, who yes, has been convicted (he took pictures of the acts). But you know what happened when I went to the police (before the husband was arrested)? They told me that because I have no familial relation to the child that there was nothing they could do. They suggested I try to convince the bio father to call the police, and he did not. It was merely a coincidence that the husband was arrested on separate charges and then the photos came to light. So, the bio mother is in jail for several months now on unrelated charges, but will she lose custody? No. She will get out and continue to endanger that defenseless child. But hey, she was fertile, so she’s the best person for that child to be with.
You’re bitter about your situation, I’m bitter about my situation, but really, that other child is not a part of my family and I just think it’s a shame that children like her have to endure such a life. I am worried about all children, not just my own. I think it is wrong for bio parents (mother’s especially) to get preferential treatment because of their DNA, but I am just one nobody in a sea of people that disagree.
Sarah
From my assessment of your content you have been hurt and not fully recovered from the divorce issues you have experienced. I understand that which you have experienced was unfair as a child of divorce and no child should have to experience that. As one of my sons told me “I didn’t sign up for this divorce. All I wanted was a normal life.” I will take his comment one step further. Children need and desire stability and with how the legal system is set up in hand with bitter spouses it creates a vacuum that is detrimental to a child and leaks over into adulthood. The question, which I think you miss on this blog, is how can we create a better life for children where they have the freedom and security to love both parents? It is not about the tallying of time between biological parents.
There are not as many stories of abuse as one may think but because it creates for a sensational story for ratings it is the thing advertised and put on Dateline, TLC and all other crime and touchy-feely shows including the news. Let me ask you how many times have you seen a show of the injustice of the courts to demonize a parent or wrongly remove a child from a good home? This happens daily and it is something never talked about but saying the madness that is going on is acceptable is crazy. As I stated I never wish the hell of PA on anyone.
Let me ask you if you feel that this is abusive.
“Suppose a mother was so bitter with her soon to be ex husband takes their kids 1200 miles away and convinces a homeless shelter to build her a brand new house. According to her she tells the kids the only way they can get the house was to accuse the father of physical abuse and if they don’t that they would loose the house and have to live on the street and it would all be their fault.” Do you think this is acceptable behavior or do you find it abusive? How do you think this would affect a child?
It is things like this that happens each and ever day and that is what we are talking about. How do you protect a child from things like this?
Seriously Chris, do you have children? The other so called parent is the adult, so is it God Given right to abuse the child. Children have the right to live without abuse, as so often the abuse leads to more emotional damage, physical harm and death. I think it time we stop giving you airtime as you are waste of good resource. You are the enabler who is encourage harm to the children of the world. The best advice you can receive is save the children as they will be adults one day, teach them to be respected so they can respect the people and world they live in
Hey Peter you have no clue what being a parent is all about, being falsely accused or having your kids snatched from you as your ex runs halfway across the country exploiting people, including your kids, then have her boyfriend contact you telling you that he has witnessed her physically abuse your kids as your kids tell you how she threatened them if they didn’t accuse you of abuse and they would be homeless if they didn’t all so she could exploit people to build her a brand new $300,000 house. Is that not abuse? But it is okay as I have heard your mind numbing dribble before and my shoulders are big enough to take your outlandish trash.
I feel for the kids who are in this tug of war. It is ugly and they are the real victims. There is an understanding that parents on both sides need to see that dropping the drama and trying to be amicable on both sides is in a child’s best interest. Yes it is far more difficult as children become teenagers as a typical teen fights for independence and in a divorce they must fight the battle on 2 fronts rather than in just one place with 2 parents on the same page.
Do you not find it interesting the Greg started this blog not in support of allowing a custodial parent to influence or allow a child to make decisions on visitation rather on explaining that decision may be wrong and how to resolve the contention for a child’s best interest? You have to understand job and who he represents.
Sorry you don’t like opposing views as it doesn’t fit into your perfect box.
Normally I would agree with Greg’s assessment as he is spot on, but in this one topic I would have to say I disagree.
Parental rights is a for all or for no one decision. You cannot say that you advocate against parental alienation yet ask for one parent’s rights to be terminated. In my opinion Parental Alienation/Interference needs to be abolished in full. No parent should be cut off from a relationship with their minor child unless THEY sign over their parental rights to another in adoption. With that said all parents should have the right to love and have a relationship with both parents regardless of being incarcerated or not.
You say that it is BS to “force her to visit,” but do you not force your daughter into things she may not want to do that is not a visit? You force children to go to school when they don’t want to. As a parent you force them to take a shower, clean their rooms, contribute to helping out with the family chores, so what is making a “visit” with the other parent a matter of “force” being more evil than these other things that they too don’t want to do?
Now with that being said it does not mean that all relationships are created equal as not all visitation schedules should be created equal. Just like in a criminal case if a judge thinks that a parent is a danger to a child (PROOF of physical of sexual abuse) the judge should issue a probation period whereto the parent would have to work on and strive for improvement going through several steps to earn time with their children. This may only be telephone calls or supervised visitation or build up into those steps with a short period where there may be no contact. If this gets violated they get demoted. If things improve so does the terms of the visitation.
As for your case, sure the mother has obviously made some mistakes, and has paid for those mistakes through incarceration, but don’t punish her twice and punish your (yours and her) child as a result of stupidity, selfishness, anger of any other feeling as it is not healthy for the child. There will come a day your child will come to judge you on how you handle this, right or wrong. Yes she may need restrictions but forcing her to give up her rights is purely wrong. Give her an incentive to clean up her act.
Think about it this way. If this was you child who has screwed up would you want to see them endure further pain if you could control it?
Chris,
I absolutely HATE how some people use children to punish the Ex. As bad as it can be for the parents, the damage done to the children can be life-long and extensive, especially when active alienation has occurred and the child is led to believe the non-custodial parent has elected to abandon or discard the child. You’d be surprised at just how often this nastiness happens, especially when the alienating parent can then turn right around and explain their contempt by painting a picture that they are “afraid” of the “angry” ex.
But, with respect to the issues Justin described above about the 15 year old not wanting to visit with a mother who spent 14.5 years incarcerated; this seems like a completely different scenario. There might be some very good reasons that the teenager has for not wanting to visit her mother. 14 years + in prison isn’t usually done for petty crimes and what mom did does matter, especially if mom’s history is such that the teenager doesn’t feel safe around her.
If the teenager has a logical, rational reason for not wanting to visit, she is at an age where she can be involved in self-advocacy. She should communicate her wishes and more importantly, the rational reasons for those wishes to the court, DCF, and a Guardian Ad Litem or Children’s Best Interest Attorney.
Leslie
I feel that Justin’s concerns are valid with her behavior, yet I do feel that each parent should have the opportunity to be a parent and build into their children. When there is a case where a parent has been out of relationship for an extended period of time a reintegration process should be instituted and it is beyond me to understand why judges don’t take that into account and award more time for good behavior and less time for bad.
As for the teenage issue, I had a discussion with judge 3 in my case after my ex tried to obtain an order of protection to justify violating my visitation with my kids. She looked at both of us and said “learn how to get along for the children’s best interest. There will come a time where they will become teenagers and want to hang out with their friends more than you. Don’t be offended because this is all about growing up and truthfully as a result of the pain it is an understandable escape to think about better things.” I have a 17 year old daughter, a 16 year old son, a 15 year old son and a 13 year old son. I grieve for the 7 years I lost with them but at their current ages I cannot expect them to relive those lost years. Rather I need to deal with that pain and be able to enjoy that time of them being young adults when I get that chance again. My kids have jobs, friends, school and so much more, yet at the end of the day allow for the noncustodial parent to set a date to go to dinner with their kids or to spend some time and hear their heart. It can make for them to be better people.
Note that I am writing this 1 hour before stepping into court to try to bring resolve to a case that has been nothing short of a bias mess.
Chris,
So very sorry to hear about the alienation that has been happening and it seems to be something courts rarely care about. My husband put his ex-wife through graduate school and she got a doctorate in psychology. He was also the primary parent for their children during their early years (mom was teaching classes while getting her doctorate.) The marital deal was that she would return the support ans he would be able to get to go get his BA degree after she finished her dissertation and got a full time teaching position. However, she reneged on the deal, reconnected with an old boyfriend who also had a doctorate, and filed for divorce.
Placement during the separation was 50/50 until the mother decided things weren’t going her way and she started making false allegations of “grooming for incest.” Amazingly, the incest allegations were disproved (not deemed “unfounded” but were disproven, which I guess has more gravity in court, as I understand it.) However, since the mother had accepted a teaching position out of state (close to the boyfriend), she got primary and he got most of school breaks.
This went on for a few years until after Mom published a number of papers on high-conflict interactions of divorced couples, with the biggie being a professional paper on how custody mandates “harm” the children and victimize the woman, especially when she doesn’t like the ex and he makes her “feel like she has less power”.
The year after the biggie paper was published in a Sociology journal, the mother made another round of unfounded and false child abuse claims (mostly neglect this time) to DCF specifically to create a document trail to justify withholding the kids, and then she withheld the kids from visitation. She also ran down to the court and petitioned for a modification.
By this time, the mother was making 3 times what dad made, and had married her boyfriend who makes significantly more than she does as a toxic pharmacologist. Mom drove the litigation costs way up with getting a best interest attorney and getting venue shifted to her home state (so the father was paying out of pocket for every meeting, conference, appointment, ect.)
The father couldn’t afford an attorney for round 2 of the custody litigation. He broke down before the trial in the last round of mediation and told the mediator that all of the conflict was damaging the kids (the eldest was seriously acting out by now, including being sexually promiscuous, sharing prescription meds with her friends, shaving her head, skipping class, etc.). He said that one of the parents had to just stop fighting, so he was going to make the sacrifice. He begged that he be allowed to have unmonitored phone and email contact with the kids, and he could send presents as he saw fit to his kids; and he got that in the modification. Fahter also got visitaiton, but it could only happen in the children’s home state and the mother had to approve the visit time(s).
The second they stepped out of the court room, the mother violated the new order when she refused to let the father give his son the Nintendo DS that he had brought for Christmas.
The father was allowed to see his kids all of twice (I think, it might have been only once). Father’s phone calls are never returned, dad is lucky to get a 5-10 minute call with his son every other Sunday, No gifts have ever been received by the kids, no emails responded to… you get the picture. The older child (daughter) is now 20 and refuses to have anything to do with her father, spouting vitriol about how he “abandoned her”, and how he “doesn’t care about her”, and “how he wasn’t around for 7 years”, and she told her father that she introduces people to her step-father as her “dad”. The girl has even dropped her last name on all of her social media. We don’t know if she has had it legally changed or not.
In the past few months, the only contact the father has had with his 14 year old son, being the every-other Sunday phone call, has almost completely stopped. The timing is particularly hurtful because the phone calls pretty much stopped right after the father’s dad passed away. So, the father has no choice now but to go back to court as a pro-se litigant and try one last time to get the court to enforce contact. He doesn’t think he will be very successful, given that he’s going up against an adversary who, according to her resume, is a “social scientist” specializing in “marital separation, families, identity and conflict”. She also has the gender and now is earning about 4 times what he earns.
I feel for you. All I can tell you is that alienation hurts everyone, in the end. As a person who was alienated against one of my parents, I know that once the truth does come out, the alienation is going to backfire. The child might be grown by the time they find out the truth, but secrets never stay buried. The best advice I can give you is to start preparing yourself for reintegration, and your best assets will be proof (like legal documents that show you fought to be part of your child’s life, and documents that prove timelines, in case the alienating parent has gone so far as to spin a “dad doesn’t care about you” story.) When I,as an adult, looked at the actual documents from my parent’s divorce, it became crystal clear who was lying and who was not. Although I love both of my parents, the only one I would trust was the one who I had been alienated from, as a child.
While you can’t get back lost time, consider the fact that you have a lot more life to live. In all likelihood, reconciliation will happen. I highly recommend having a therapist help with this, since there will probably be a lot of information that the child will need to take in. Naturally, you’re angry and frustrated. However, you need to make sure that when the child does seek you out, you don’t unload that anger and frustration in a way that makes the child feel even more guilty or bad. However, time is on your side here, so don’t give up. Best of wishes to you.
Leslie
I am so grateful to hear your story especially after seeing the wickedness of the judge yesterday and the irrogance of my ex-wife and GAL yesterday. The judge very clearly told me that he refuses to allow me a new hearing unless there is a significant change like my kids telling him that they want to see me and talk to me. I pray God’s judgement on him and his family is great and unforgiving.
He then went on scheming on how best to screw me out of every dollar I have and can make in the future for attorney fees and giving it all to my ex. He has already told me that he is going to make his own rules on how he will figure child support demanding the last 2 years of financials, ignore a previous order of indigence and refigure child support on gross income rather than state law of net income including reducing for any medical costs.
These people are evil and payback is a bitch and it is coming their way.
My question for you is do you force a child to visitation when they are being emotionally and mentally abused? The court in my area thinks this is ok.
Angelica, that’s my concern as well. At what point does a child’s right to NOT be emotionally and mentally abused take priority over the noncustodial parent’s visitation rights?
My child is resisting staying overnight with her father, especially after visits where his “episodes” occur. He speaks to her in ways not even an adult should be spoken to, always with the excuse afterwards “if you didn’t piss me off, I wouldn’t have to treat you that way”. She’s nearly eight. She should not be called a “stupid f^@^ing b!&@h” if she asks to go home or mocked when she cries! And this, after he’s blown her off here and there for years whenever he’s felt like it.
I think the tactic of trying to flip it around to “Don’t you make them do anything they don’t want to do? Brush their teeth? Chores?” is reprehensible. Brushing her teeth and doing her chores whether she feels like it or not doesn’t result in nightmares, terrify her, or emotionally scar her.
My question is how is emotional, verbal, and mental abuse proven to a court?
Wendy and Angelica
I agree with you both that ugly talk should not happen with anyone, child, spouse, employee, ect. It is completely uncalled for. Answering your question though becomes a slippery slope due to our politically correct society. The swearing and verbal humiliation is one thing, then you have some crazy parents who would say that a parent who tells their child to clean their room and they are resistant is abuse. If that isn’t bad enough children see how the game is played and are likely to inflate and make up stories against one parent of the other in order to get what they want not knowing the reprocussions involved. Children are typically all about themselves until they mature. As a result a judge has to filter through what is real and what is fake.
Here is a prime example.
In 2013 a judge in Illinois decided to get involved with my case overstepping the court order of visitation in another state and ordered visitation yet did nothing to enforce it. One of the things he suggested was for me to skype a visitation center in Illinois as I did not live there. Due to not being able to afford internet at the time I happened to go to a local Starbucks with my headset and sit in a quite corner as I enjoyed a coffee. The first comment my daughter made was “Why are you at Starbucks as you don’t pay any child support?” I asked her candidly “Who told you I don’t pay child support as I do?” She responded “Nobody, but if you didn’t go all of the time then we could have more money.” Again I asked her “How much do you think I spend in coffee?” She blirted out “$2867 per year.” When the judge found out about this conversation he was outraged not by me and the conversation of having a cup of coffee, rather by someone having such a negative influence on my kids to have them talk disrespectfully and to have been given information that was not for them to know.
Later this same judge again had taken issue about the defiance and disrespect and bullying they were doing to me as their father.
So I guess the question really comes down to the fact of how a judge has to filter through the truth on an issue and has to take into account all matters of the case as some of it may be outside influence of malicious intent by one parent or the other. If you play nicely and find that there is an issue bringing it to a judge’s attention they may just listen to you, but keep in mind abuse can be the flip side of the same coin and can be given out by the child or custodial parent just as much as it can by the non-custodial parent. Scrutinize what your child is saying because they may not be telling you the full story and seeing you weren’t there you don’t have the full truth. Approach the issue with grace.
(BTW….$2867 of Starbucks coffee at the time was approximately 1,200 cups of coffee per year or about 3-4 every day per year).
I totally understand what you’re saying, Chris. If your ex put that in your child’s head, it is in no way fair or good. I also understand what you’re saying about scrutinizing the claims of a child, and I do, but what I relayed in my comment is only a very small portion of what I’ve heard with my own ears. A very small portion, not to mention what he says to her about me. Considering he speaks that way to her when he knows I can hear, I hate to even imagine what is said when he is alone with her. I know there are selfish people out there who put their own interests above their children’s and try to hurt or alienate the other parent. I think I have done the opposite by trying to be as positive and friendly as possible, by never speaking ill of him while having to walk the fine line of also comforting and consoling her, by encouraging him to come to our home whenever he wants, to be more than accommodating whenever she would want to see him during “my” times. I tried to make her feel comfortable in his apartment by buying bedding and decorations for her bedroom when he didn’t (in the one apartment where he actually had a room for her). I’ve even taken tags off of gifts I’ve purchased and handed them to him to give to her when he didn’t bother to shop for Christmas or birthdays. No sane person would or should ever want their child to feel anything other than pride in their family and surrounded by love of their family, even when they live apart. But sometimes no matter how hard we try, that just isn’t possible because of lack of cooperation. I am just trying to keep my child from suffering mentally and emotionally, which is next to impossible if a judge feels time with a verbally/emotionally/mentally abusive parent is more important than her right to not be treated in that manner. I’m at a loss and feeling like a failure for not being able to keep my own child safe from that type of treatment.
Wendy
The bitterness people can have is beyond me, especially when they are the ones that either leave or refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. I feel for you and truthfully there is just no good answer but to parent your kids the best way you can, and sometimes that includes exposing your kids to the other parent without tremendous harm. It comes back to the attive of allowing a child to fall and make mistakes without always intervening so they do not become dependent and learn how to stand on their own and succeed.
In my posts both here and other places you would find that I am resolved to these very simple facts:
– children are not a possession so no parent should have more rights to a child than another.
– children need both parents for proper development as you offer some things your ex doesn’t and visa versa.
– if a parent is being abusive to a child their parenting should be restricted and given the opportunity to work towards reunification with said child.
We are developing tomorrow’s future and if we don’t bring a semblance of stability to children of broken families and proper healing we are only growing more potential broken families for the future.
Wendy, my heart goes out to you. I know your heart is torn over the matter but I encourage you to be the best you can for your kids. Have a good day.
Justin, I know you don’t understand the dynamics of parental alienation/interference, but the truth is unless a parent elects to give up their parental rights, they are still a parent and have the rights to be an influence on their child’s life. To answer your question, yes a child should be required to spend time with a noncustodial parent regardless of their resistance. With that said the noncustodial parent needs to give the child, typically a teenager in high school or middle school, the flexibility and freedom the opportunity to negotiate that time between them without your influence as this is THEIR relationship not YOURS. You cannot get in the middle and seeing you have a teenage daughter allow her to fight this battle with your hands off. What she works out with her mom is between her and her mom and doesn’t need outside influence on the matter. She does need your validation in the matter, but be careful of influencing her decisions. What you can do is encourage her to tell her mom how she feels and see if there can be some kind of compromise. That is to her benefit as it is her mother’s. This teachs her an important life lesson that she can use later in life.
Justin I am on the receiving end of the alienation of my ex with my kids and has been in litigation for almost 7 years as she has refused to obey court orders for visitation, took the kids over state lines, has trashed me because as she say “I am out to destroy you.” My kids are all teenagers and they don’t want to see me either for petty and outlandish reasons as well as false accusations. I do feel my 16 year old son and 17 year old daughter need that flexible to not always be required (and remember is is required not forced) visitation to be able to hold a job, hang out with friends or do some of those things they so desire. I have also seen that they have been subject to mental and have been told physical abuse at the hands of my ex and they will carry those scars for the rest of their lives which is purely evil and heartbreaking.
Remember to be a bystander in the situation out of future respect to her and the relationship she will have with her mother. Live in peace with her as best as possible regardless if you like it or not.
Justin made a tell telling sign that maybe you are interfering with visitation for your own gain just in your first comment. You said “I want to spend time with my daughter in the last few years before she becomes an adult” claiming it is in the best interest of the child. Them you ask the question “whose benefiting me forcing my child to have visitation with her mother when she doesn’t want to?”
So let me ask you the question.
So it is okay for you to spend the last few years before your daughter becomes an adult, but it is not okay for her mother to spend those same few years with her daughter before she is an adult? Don’t you think this is a double standard? How would you act if your daughter were saying that about you and her mother were saying exactly what you are? Would you be okay with that our would you fight for that time?
From what I am hearing from you is that you are an alienator and it needs to stop for the best interest of your daughter.
Well stated Justin. Have a great day.
I’ve read the first few paragraphs, but here’s the issue.
His mother screams at him for no reason (he’s recorded it on a few occasions). She left for a few years and came back, and asked if he wanted to live with her, he responded no and she threatened to “drive off a bridge.” He’s said that while one time she’s only fed him a single salad the entire day he was there. She treats me, the parent with custody, like I’m a nanny.
I’m sure there’s several other things I forgot to mention, but it makes sense why my child genuinely doesn’t want to visit with her.
So I am the grandmother of a 7 month old baby boy. My daughter and her husband got a divorce while she was pregnant. Her and him agreed for his visits to be twice a week on his days off, he could visit in our home or take the baby out from 9am to 5 pm. For the past 5 months he has been taking the baby out of the house for the visit. But she realized baby was only eating 1 to 2 oz of milk each time he would take him for the 8 hours. Now the doctor is getting concerned that he is not gaining a lot of weight. So my daughter has asked her ex to visit the baby in our home so he can learn how to get the baby to take his bottle. I do not mind doing the visits!! But he now has brought his tv and Xbox to his visit so he can play it while he is at our house for the visit. Also out of 40 visits available in the last 5 months he has only showed for 18 of them. What do we do!!
I don’t know what you do. Your daughter can seek to modify the father’s visitation if the situation bothers her.
Greg is correct here. A suggestion to consider is see if your county has what is called a “Visitation Center.” I know that this is something that several counties throughout Illinois has which allows for parents to drop off a child for a pick up or supervised visitation. It may be helpful to have the outside help to direct him on being a parent and give pointers as needed.
I do know that in most divorces they require both parents to take a parenting class so they understand how and what to do with their child. My thought is that he needs to take the X-Box and TV home as your home and this time is not for his entertainment rather it is for him to get to know his child. There are boundaries that need to be formed and you need to decide what is acceptable and what is not. If he is violating those boundaries then you need to get a modification which is written boundaries to be enforced.
Chris, please stop comparing apples to oranges. Do i force my daughter to do homework? No, she does it in her own because she wants to be educated, do i force her to do chores, absolutely not, that’s how she earns her allowance, do i force her to bathe, no, she does it because she doesn’t want to stink. If this was a matter of a younger child who WANTED to know her mother, heck yeah, i wouldnt have to force her. If her mother did what the court wanted almost 15 years ago, we wouldn’t be here, if she hadnt come back last year and messed up reintegration by commiting more crimes, the child would probably still want to do it. The child has no desire to know her mother at this point and was in tears after court monday that even though the judge listened to her, shes gonna be forced to sit in a room with a complete stranger. My daughters plan is to tell her mother she doesnt wanna do this and not say another word and probably go sit with whoever is supervising the visit. Would you force your 15 year old child to interact with a complete stranger against their will? Tell me you would
All that being said, a final question is, who are we really doing all this for? For my benefit? No, i have much better things to do with my time, like spending as much time with my daughter before she becomes a legal adult in a few short years and probably goes on to live her own life without me. Are we doing this for the childs benefit? No, she doesn’t want to do it, and by FORCING her to do so, what are we really teaching her? That you can shrug of a lifelong responsibility in every manner (emotionally,physically,mentally, and financially) and still feel entitled to something?
Or are we doing this for the bio mothers benefit?
So she can feel better about herself being a completely non existent parent.
Im sorry to go on, but as someone who has broken the mold that a man cant raise a child, it does upset me that you, and others, feel that no matter what someone does or rather doesnt do, that they are entitled to something. If the show was on the proverbial other foot, and i disappeared almost 15 years ago, was ordered zero contact by a judge, and never paid a dime of order’d support, do you think i would be afforded the same opportunities?
Not likely
Lol, you assume to much cal, but i dont blame you amd dont hold it against you. Ive always told my daughter it is her choice and will support her no matter what. I understand your frustration and im sorry for what your going through. But please dont assume i dont understand how a family works. My daughter doesn’t want this, i may be “obligated” to take her to these appointments, but if she chooses to not participate, well ill support that. Life is to short to be so angry
Ive been thinking about the post here, and ive realized, that maybe somethings are misunderstood.
So here’s my attempt to clarify some of it.
1: i am not opposed to mother and daughter seeing each other if 15 year old child wants to do it.
2: ive always supported my daughter and her decisions (i.e. when we tried the visits last year, child wanted that)
3: there has been no negative criticism about mother, no “coaching” or accusations or nothing.
4: my original post was more in regards to or along the lines of, if kid doesn’t want to do it, why force it?
Have to agree with Justin. Maybe I missed something in the back and forth, did the judge talk with the teenager ( with neither parent present) to ask WHY she doesn’t want to see this woman who happens to be her biological mother? Let’s face it- she is not “mother” Greg, being a parent isn’t a right and creating a child doesn’t make one a parent- it’s a privilege and with this privilege comes responsibility. The biological parent in jail, it appears has demonstrated what??
At the center is the child, not the mother. Listen to the child. Why, why, why doesn’t she want to be forced to spend time alone with a near stranger? 15- now that’s a great age, isn’t it? Anyone out there want to re-live 15? Add having a mother incarcerated. Validate this young lady, her wishes are more important than her mothers.
Each case is unique.
Thank you for the reply Margaret,
Yes, the judge did listen to the child alone, and when court was over the child was in tears because he wouldn’t adhere to what she wanted.
Last year, when her mother got out of prison, she took me to court to get visitation, the judge ordered reintegration therapy, and the child wanted to do it then, then-the mother got sent back to prison for about a year. When she got out, she took me back to court. After she got sent back to prison, the child was hurt and disappointed, i believe this is why child doesn’t want to do it. Now weve been ordered to do supervised visits through casa, which i believe is good, casa will listen to the child. So im forced to take child to visits, but child can refuse visit apon arrival, if this happens a handful of times, casa will cancel further visits, and report to the judge that CHILD refused visits. Could be the best thing. This whole thing should not be what either parent wants, but what the child wants. If we were dealing with a younger child, i could definitely understand forcing child to do something, but we are talking about a 15 year old, who is highly intelligent, and knows exactly what she wants. Throughout this whole thing, ive always told her that no matter what she SHE decides, i will support her.
Justin
I followed what was going on, but what ALL parents need to understand that the law under UCCJEA requires the courts to weigh the facts independent of what a child so desired until they are 18 yo. Now with that said the states (ALL) have adopted the federal law with a caviot which allows a judge to do things on a case by case basis for the best interest of a child which may consist of instituting DCF, a GAL, a CASA or some other child advocate and may even interview the child or have a psychologist involved. The greatest issue though is that the judicial system has some extreme flaws to it where judges become bias in many cases and paint all non-custodial dads one way and all non-custodial moms one way as well. In most cases a non-custodial parent is stripped of their parental rights on the most rediculous reasons, and in some cases as yours where the mother is not engaged and clean up there act get benefits that maybe should not be afforded to them as it should be in some other case.
I don’t know your ex and I have only heard one side of the story from you, but imagine for a moment how you would feel if you were cut off from your child for many years. Would you fight to keep in contact in some way? Being a parent requires unconditional love and truthfully the reason a teenage child wants to cut off ties with a non-custodial parent is for 2 reasons:
1)They thrive on stability. The teenage years are probably one of the hardest times of development for a child as they are coming into themselves and learning how to transition into becoming an adult in the next few years. This is especially difficult on girls.
2) There is a level of guilt and shame a child has as a result of a dissolution of a relationship. Even though they have had nothing to do with why the relationship ended they take on a level of ownership in order to give understanding to what happened with the implosion of the stability that they once knew.
It is very rare that a child would ever discuss this with you unless they were asked the correct questions and sometimes not even then. They will typically not give you an answer until their adult years around 23-25 most often because they do not understand how they feel and this is commonly ignored in the courts and never touched on in counseling.
The only advise I can give you is put your motions out for restricted visitation, but never try to sever off that relationship with the non-custodial parent as it will boomerang back on you in some form. If you allow her to do what she needs and stop the battling so that you can give her the consistent stability without the interference in her relationship with her mom, it is the best thing you can do. As for the mother being in and out of jail and the courts doing supervised visitation, I find that this is a good call. Just let your daughter know having some kid of contact with her is in her best interest. If things go south and become harmful allow the CASA to know and it will be brought to the judges attention.
Good luck!
Amen Greg! It is so obvious from the commentary of those who oppose you that you have it nailed it. It is like reading commentary from sports fans talking about how the other team should have had 20 penalties called on them, while their home team should have had maybe one or 2.
My 3 boys and I need so much help. We’re all at the point of feeling as though no one is listening. Here’s our extremely brief bio: we ran from abuse in July of 2014. I’m almost wishing we stayed, if I knew this was the HELL we were going to endure. I’m disgusted with myself for even thinking that way because my boys and I have had the crap beat out of us – physically, emotionally, financially…u name it, we’ve gotten up from it. But this custody trial is destroying us. Yes, I said Trial. Someone used the word Entitlement in a previous post, and NAILED it! My boys are 12, almost 10, and 3.5 years old. Therefore, they are also being forced to see their father. The 2 oldest boys obviously remember the hitting, screaming, put downs, etc. Even though they want nothing to do with their father, they’re still forced to see him every Saturday. They’ve had to give up friend’s birthday parties, sports events, school functions, etc. to go see a man who NEVER gave up his Saturday’s when they lived with him! Their dad didn’t go to their baseball, soccer, football or basketball games (not exaggerating, I counted MAYBE 5 games TOTAL! NOT FOR EACH OF THEM! NOT EACH SPORT! BUT A WHOPPING 5 GAMES TOTAL!) Their dad never went to a school concert, church event, or spent the day at a playground with them. He’s even gone as low as admitting to “having something else to do” instead of attending his kids birthdays. Their dad has admitted to burning theirs and my personal items: furniture, books, toys, pictures) and a month after we left our home, their father sold our things at his garage sale (his mother and sister actually helped!) So here’s what we want to know: 1. WHY on earth would a Judge expect them to want to see him? Would u want to hang out with someone who repeatedly put u down, beat the crud out of u, ur brother and ur mom? 2. Why can’t anyone hear us?!
Now, just to set the record straight, I’ve been encouraging and supportive on BOTH ends. As much as I despise doing so, I’ve honestly tried to foster a relationship between the boys and their dad. But now I’m DONE…He’s been over stepping his boundaries (restraining orders are still in effect) and recent alarming behavior from my boys has me extremely worried. No one is suggesting a modification to the visitation. No one has checked to see if my ex has started therapy. And I was recently referred to as “a pain in the ass” by my boys law guardian when I asked for an earlier appointment (FYI, their office called ME twice that hour!?) we are all overwhelmed, anxious, angry, and just fed up. If there’s any one out there who can offer any advice or resources, you have no idea how much we’d appreciate it…thanks for reading. *We’re in NY, btw
Michele, he now has restraining orders / “overstepping his boundaries” yet at the same time he and your children are being reminded of every time he didn’t spend time with them in the past during your marriage, and all the things that are more important than their relationship with him.
He divorced you, not his kids. Let him try to be a father on his own.
Michele
You asked why the custody case is putting you back in the game with someone who has abused you. It is simple. Unless you had a hearing for abuse a judge has a hard time going off of just what someone said especially if they do not have evidence that has been properly submitted. If you leave and there is nothing to support why you left it paints you as an alienator rather than an abuse victim. The best thing you could have would be either medical records or witnesses of abuse.
As a result a judge is obligated to go off of the evidence and information he/she has before him. Do you have a GAL or CASA involved? You may want to consider that option but be forewarned, those who request may be on the hook to pay the fees involved so make sure you are able to pay and check with your attorney.
I forgot to ask….has ANYONE actually forced a child to see their non custodial parent only to have that child turn around in 10 years and THANK them? I’m NOT trying to be a wise guy, I’m seriously wondering. Because my boys DON’T attempt to jump from a moving car because I asked them to take the garbage out. They don’t have nightmares or panic attacks over brushing their teeth.
I WANT to meet the parent with the kid that THANKED them for forcing them to visitation for all those years!
Every situation if different. There ARE cases when custodial parents falsely claim abuse, and then use that as justification for alienation (‘it’s for the children.”)
There are ALSO cases where non-custodial abusers allege alienation to escape any accountability for their actions.
Furthermore, there as cases when custodial abusers alienate the children to avoid accountability for THEIR actions. This is my situation.
I’ve been bitten more times than I can recall to point where I was bleeding. I have had a broom handle broken over my left forearm. I have been hit in the head with pan. I have had two fingers broken on two occasions. I have been threatened with divorce, “taking everything”, “you’ll never see the kids”, etc. for my entire marriage. My ex is alike a 4 year old, spoiled child, and she gets to keep the kids. She calls my young daughter a bitch. Pulls her hair. Smacks the kicks across the face, and then spoils and entitles them. And, she gets to keep the kids. After $80,000, CPS, the police, etc. I ran out of money. So, she gets to keep the kids, one of whom won’t even speak to me.
Hopefully, I can still help the younger one who I see regularly to not grow up to be an abuser OR a victim.
I genuinely understand both sides here. I’ve been divorced for 3 years, and live with my 5 year old daughter in a different state than her father. He could’ve moved (he works in a job he could find anywhere), when my daughter and I did, to have more of a presence in her life, but he chose not to. I’ve tried to initiate communication between the two of them, and never speak poorly of my ex-husband, because I want my daughter to think highly of him in spite of the fact that he has made little effort to be involved in her life. In the divorce decree he asked for “up to 14 days a year” of custody, and in the last 3 years, he’s seen her a total of 11 days. Basically, he’s missed out on a great deal of her childhood by choice. I’ve never told him that he can’t come see her, but he’s only come to her once (the other 3 visits, I took her to visit his family). When he came to visit, I drove 45 minutes each way (he booked a hotel on the opposite side of town), 8 times in a weekend, because I wanted to make sure she spent as much time with him as possible, but she panicked at the idea of sleeping over. Now, he’s insisting that he is going to take her on a vacation this year whether I like it or not. I am not opposed to my daughter seeing her father, but her mental health is most important to me in this situation. I’m a teacher, and every day I see the impact custody battles and inconsistency in parenting decisions has on children. I see kids who have lived with their mother their whole lives, have things turned upside down when suddenly, at 11 years old, their custody schedule changes and they’re staying with their father 50% of the time. They develop behavior problems, don’t know where to direct their anger, and they become visibly unhappy. I understand non-custodial parents wanting to become more involved and I support that. But the well-being of the child should be the number one concern. Is it really “best for her” for me to send my child on a vacation with her dad because HE wants to take her? My daughter is 5. She doesn’t make decisions, because she’s 5. If she’d had it her way, she would’ve never gone back to visit her father during the weekend he was in town. That first night of a 3 hour visit was enough for her. But I made her go, because I want her to have some childhood memories with him. Now,she bursts into tears at the idea of traveling with a man she barely knows (which is his choice, not hers), and I can’t blame her. I’ve told her father I’ll try to work with him on this (I could travel where he’s traveling and he could have her during the day), but he seems to see it only one way. I’m trying to give him an opportunity for involvement, without completely messing with her head. No, I don’t think kids should make the decisions. And I also know that sometimes custodial parents make poor choices in how they present the other parent to their children. But I think it’s important for children to be heard. In this case, I don’t have to force her to go, because of the way custody is spelled out in the divorce decree. If she wanted to go, I would let her go. But I’m not going to force her to do it.
Mr. Forman,
Thanks for putting up such an informative and excellent post. I think a lot of parents are stuck in a mindset where they can’t or don’t want to put aside their grievances and dislike of the ex, and they either intentionally or unintentionally work to program the child(ren) to be on their side. I think in an awful lot of examples, children are probably going to go along with the custodial parent’s version of things because the child doesn’t want to get in the middle of yet another conflict.
In some cases though, the children get caught up in a punishment game where one parent actively seeks to damage the reputation of the other parent through saying horrible things about the other parent to the kids. I think when children start believing this, then you get situations where the child genuinely doesn’t want to have anything to do with the other parent. However, this can backfire ion a really big way.
When I was a child, I was told horrible, terrible things about my noncustodial parent (who was an interstate truck driver). I was told that the parent didn’t love me anymore, that the parent didn’t care about me, that the parent was a criminal, that the parent was amoral… (you get the idea). What really happened was that visitation was routinely foiled by the custodial parent (I’d always be elsewhere, like a relative’s or friend’s or even at camp when visitation was to happen), letters, cards and birthday gifts were thrown away before I ever saw them, I never got phone messages, etc. Actually the alienation extended to the entire other half of my family and I didn’t get to have anything whatsoever to do with the noncustodial parent’s family until I was an adult.
When I was a teenager, I had a half-day from school and intercepted a bouquet of flowers with a letter that the noncustodial parent had sent for my birthday before it was thrown away. This let to me asking questions and over time it came out that I had been lied to for over a decade by the custodial parent and my step-parent.
As an adult, I refused to have anything whatsoever to do with the custodial parent for over 2 decades, and it was hard going to build a relationship with the alienated parent because I had absorbed and believed so many lies. All this turmoil made a huge and negative impact on my self esteem and self worth, and my interpersonal relationships were very rocky from my lack of trust issues for a long time. The good news though is that now, I have a fantastic relationship with the formerly alienated parent.
So, when there is a custody mandate, the job of the court NEEDS to be ENFORCEMENT of the visitation, unless there is a valid and significant risk to the CHILD from that visitation. I’d never suggest that parents who physically or sexually abuse a child be allowed contact, or that parents who have exposed the child to danger or harm through neglect should be given timesharing. However, in my opinion, withholding children from visitation and poisoning a child against the ex IS CHILD ABUSE. I wish the courts would take this more seriously and impose meaningful sanctions on parents who alienate their children.
My stepdaughter is almost 9, and over the last 6 months or so has frequently said she doesn’t want to come see us. My husband and his ex separated when she was a year and a half, and the divorce was final a year later. She was a preemie, and due to eating issues has had a feeding tube in her stomach since she was 6 months old. Now, the tube generally goes unused, but her mother will feed her through it when she loses her appetite when she gets sick, and from what I understand, it must go unused for 6 months before they will remove it. Unfortunately, when the custody agreement was written, my husband had a 75 hr/week job, and it was agreed that he would visit my stepdaughter on Friday afternoons in her home until the feeding tube was removed, and then they would arrange a more traditional every other weekend schedule.
Her mother has had 2 more children, gotten married, and moved twice since then. Right after her last child was born, and my stepdaughter was 5, she started allowing my husband to take her to his home during the day on Sundays instead, and that has been the arrangement for almost 4 years since, but it was never formally changed in writing. His ex goes back and forth between being civil and amicable and being hostile towards us. For example, when her current husband filed for divorce twice, she was very nice to us. When they reconciled, she went back to hating our guts. My stepdaughter is well aware that her mother hates us.
Every Sunday morning, my husband texts his ex to let him know when my stepdaughter is ready. There used to be a set pick up time (10 AM), but then his ex would let her stay up late Saturday nights and then sleep late on Sundays and would refuse to wake her early on the weekends. In the last several months, my stepdaughter has been reluctant to come see us and sometimes just refuses. When she’s here, she has a good time. She seems to love her little brother (my son, who is almost 2), but more often than not says she doesn’t want to come. Is there anything we can do? The visitation in the custody agreement is no longer appropriate, as she’s in school during that time, and my husband’s ex won’t allow him in her house anyway. Can a judge enforce the verbal agreement?
Enforce a verbal agreement? Probably not. It sounds like there has been a “change in circumstance” that could warrant a judge to make an alteration to the visitation schedule, but of course you have to go to court for that if both parties do not agree. If both parties DO agree, the attorneys can simply file a new order with the court, skipping the thousands of dollars of expense for a full hearing.
Hi everyone, my son is ten years old and I have been in his life since day one. His mother and I are in a battle right now. I’ve always been apart of my son’s life but only on an every other weekend bases. I’ve always wanted to spend more time with him. However his mother wouldn’t have it. I wasn’t in a great place financially until now. I have always had to work overtime, plus the weekends just to stay afloat child support makes it difficult. I’m in a place now where I can spend more time with my son. So we went to mediation I wasn’t completely happy with the arrangements. But I will be spending much more time with my son. Presently my son’s mother has decided she doesn’t won’t to sign the agreement and wants to go to court. I’m devastated, my son’s mother’s excuse is my son doesn’t like the new arrangements. Which I find hard to belive, he loves to stay with me and he even pitches a fit when he has to go back to his mothers. Now here’s my question my son’s mother is bipolar and she has been committed in the past for attempting suicide I know this because someone close to her told me. However I don’t know if I can prove this in Court. My son is also a type 1 diabetic which his mother has done a great job of staying on top of and i would like to say I don’t think she would ever harm our son. I wouldn’t even be playing this card if she wasn’t backing me in a corner. Another thing she does not keep her house up its nasty. She has had much trouble getting our son to school he was tardy 77 times last year and absent 17 times. I was pissed off I had no idea this was going on. The only reason I found out was because the school called me to let me know they were having a meeting about my son’s attendance. I showed up to his mothers surprise. The meeting consisted of ways to improve my son’s attendance. Which his mother deflected by blaming our son. I have never had any troubles with him getting up in the morning for school. I asked my son why he couldn’t get to school on time he replied it’s moms fault she want get out of bed. Anyway the school is pretty determine on him getting to school on time. The next step was possibly going to be in front of a judge. I know this year she is still having trouble with his attendance. I know this is really long and I apologize please bare with me. I should have mentioned earlier that we had decided go ahead with the agreement before the judge signed it. The time my son was with me he was never late to school. My son has trouble learning in school because of his diabetes makes it hard for him to concentrate but since he has been spending time with me he has not only gotten his first a on his report card but two A’s and a B. I know this sounds like I’m gloating but I really think I would be a better fit for him. So what is my chances of getting shared custody or possibly full custody.
Jason,
First let me say that I feel your pain and I understand. You have asked a very difficult question that really doesn’t have a simple answer…”What are my chances of shared custody or primary custody?”
Here is the long and short to your answer, but before I do I would encourage you first to seek common ground with the other parent and obtain legal counsel. As my attorney stated to me in my case “Family court cases are based on 10% facts and 90% possession of the children.” Do you have a chance on obtaining custody, sure you do, but the fight especially for a guy is much harder and much more time and resources involved than a woman. This is not taken lightly on my comment only as a standard of fact. If you are going to fight this you will need to be fully engaged and it can and will get ugly. This is why I said what I did to find some kind of common ground if you can. Now as for shared custody, if you have visitation you have shared custody but truthfully that means little more than seeing your child at the permission of the other parent as the judge is not likely to get too involved unless you can prove physical harm.
The other mitigating factor to take into account is the judge and if you are representing yourself. Look up the record of the judges in your county and find out who they are and how they stand. If you are representing yourself, you will realize you will get much resistance and if a judge has a bias the resistance will be increased.
I hope this helps. Good luck and continue to be a part of your son’s life.
CAL
My ex has not seen his children on his scheduled visitation days for about 3 years…he will see them maybe 1 time a week for an hour or if he is in a really good mood maybe twice. He has never been denied visitation he Choose not to. I have never brought him to court about either because to be honest he is soo unstable. All of the sudden he send me an email “he is enforcing his litigate rights” knowing my 15 year old was going to a dance and does Lacrosse. He is stating he is making the rules of what she can and can not do on his visiitation days…Get the heck out of here? Can he do this??? Just jump in 3 years later and start ordering everyone around???
My ex has not seen his 16 year old in 6 months. He calls once a week and now wants to take our son to Italy. My son does not want to go. He must attend summer school anyway. He has a fear of flying and a fear that his father will not bring him back. I have not influenced his decision and told him HE must discuss this with his father. I don’t believe I should force him to go. I hate the situation, but it was his father’s choice to move out of the country. Advice.
@Lyn Sanso- You also need to be involved in the conversation relating to International travel. Especially, if your son does have a valid concern regarding parental kidnapping. Has his father made statements alluding to never returning your son if he does travel to Italy with him? Or was that an “off-the-cuff” remark by your son? If you are the custodial parent and have sole custody you have the right to refuse his father from traveling outside of the country with him. You need to get your son a passport so his father can’t get one and that puts you in control. Is his father going on a scheduled business trip or recreational trip? If it is recreational then he can postpone until your son is an adult. If your son has a fear of flying and no interest in foreign travel then he should email his father so it is documented. No need to mention concerns regarding parental kidnapping. Although, that is a conversation you should have with your son, even for national travel and have a plan of action ready.
Cal, Of course you can force a child because “you can”. You like to control the living human beings like they are your possessions and they have no opinions of their own. The lawyers like you are making money and supporting emotional abuse over kids. You are making money and you will prefer that there are cases that you can fight in the legal system. Question — what happens the night child turns 18 — does he/she acquires sudden wisdom to make independent decision of what he/she wants in life? You do not think that kids should have an opinion. You want to force it down their throats. It is about time that kids are treated as humans rather than slaves or pets.
I am divorced and have primary custody of my two son’s. It was agreed she would have them every other weekend and every other Wednesday she could exercise a overnight visitation, but it ended up say she could exercise a every Wednesday visitation. I signed it knowing she wouldn’t have them on Wednesday’s. So at first I would remind and schedule the Wednesday visitation with her, every other Wednesday. However if I didn’t remind her she didn’t call to arrange the Wednesday over night stay’s. My oldest explained that he felt uncomfortable around her at times. The reason I believe he felt uncomfortable is because she called the sheriff to have me arrested. He was there listening to the lies she told about me, when I got home and was being told what I was caused of, her father vouched for me. When the sheriff left I walked in our house and he grabbed me saying, dad it’s not your fault why is she lieing. I told him to go play with his cousin. He doesn’t want to go stay with her at times during the week. He says it’s a inconvenience because I have to take my computer and printer so he can complete his school work. I believe they need both parents. But after having 4 false abuse charges and several restraining orders, at what point through this should I stop making excuses. I am a firm believer that the children need both parents. So over the years of having her curse at our boys, enough is enough. I no longer feel I need to inconvenience them during the week. I still ensure they go every other weekend. But if I quit reminding her it’s her weekend she would forget. There is much more to some stories, then my kids just want go. Frustrated and tired of reminding her of her visitation. So there are always two sides to every story, this one is my boys and i. In court the stories aren’t complete unless proper questions are asked to both parents. So your advice would be
I am in court with my ex because and the court granted him supervised visitation. The problem is, during the very first visit he was rude to her and she decided not to be part of the visits, so visits were never supervised. My problem is, i live far away from my mother ans i just had a baby( not working) and now is harder to travel there. My mother also is leaving the country soon for medical reasons. So if i bring my child to him overthere i will still be in violation.what should i do?
So, my son is already alienated from me at 16 … and now apparently she’s gotten to my nine year old daughter as well. She sometimes have behavioral issues, such as lying, “drama queen”, horribly poor sportsmanship, and bossiness. Frankly, she learned these behaviors from her, and it’s sad. No parent wants to hear their kids teachers say she lies, get angry when she doesn’t get her way, and is a drama queen.They used those words.
During her last visit, after some example of horrible sportsmanship in playing with other kids, I had her come in the house, took her to the other room, and privately told her that this behavior was not acceptable. She refused to pay attention, kept turning and walking away. I held her arm and at that point raised my voice.
This week at therapy, she told her therapist – exactly what I described. Now, the therapist has called social services and I am under investigation, again for this third time. The “charge” – emotional abuse. Because I held her arm and raised my voice. Seriously – this is the complaint.
I have now lost Spring Break with my daughter, and she will miss her Easter basket form me, gymnastics class, a surprise birthday party we had planned for her next week, and a belated Easter egg hunt through church.
Frankly, I told the therapist off on the phone … maybe I should not have, but this is ridiculous and I have had it with this process. I cannot afford to go back to court – we just settled a month ago for God’s sake, after spending $80,000 total. Now I have to pay my attorney to call social services this morning, and I told her that I will NOT speak to them. I’m just not going to. It’s a 50 miles drive each way and I refuse to do it for something so ridiculous.
In this state, you can spank you kids. I held her arm and raised my voice because she was being a brat? My guess is Mom wants to do something over Spring Break. Or maybe this is retaliation for two weeks ago when I had to explain to her that yes, she needs to pay taxes on her $35,000+ in alimony last year. It’s like she sits around all day and just thinks of ways to ruin my relationship with the kids.
Emotional abuse. Really. My daughter has a blast here when she visits. I have hundreds of pictures and videos, as well as multiple witnesses who are regularly here. And the therapist don’t care. “She’s afraid of you.” Her mother would slap her across the face, pull her hair, and call her a *itch at 6 years old. And she’s afraid of me? I think she’s afraid of her mother and she’s projecting or something.
It’s like it’s hopeless. I can’t keep doing this forever, it’s affecting my job performance, which is suffering. I have never missed a payment, been late for a pickup or drop-off, and I have paid every since medical expense for which I received proper documentation, well within my 30 day window. And none of that matters.
The only thing the “system” cares about is that my check clears every month.
My son has been traumatized by his dad since he was born. I am humiliated to say I married my sons dad so my son wouldn’t be picked on as he is biracial. Ignorant excuse. Horrible excuse now considering he is 9 and we left die to extreme abuse from his dad. My sons dad told him that God listens to children more then adults therefore left it to my son to get me to come back to him. Recently I found out he has been yelling at my son saying it is his fault I never came back. His neglect and manipulative practices and abuse are known but in the government’s eyes. It’s a cultural difference. My sons has been being raised as a Christian and his father went back to practicing Islam and told my son I am not his mom because I am not Muslim and other things. We have put up with so much my son says he doesn’t want to see his dad but is afraid of what he will do if he decides not to. When the only witnesses to abuse are the abused. No one listens.
I CALL complete bullshit on your theory especially if you don’t have a complete hx of the unavailable parent. In my situation I have raised my 14 year old ALONE from the time he was born because the father was absent doing drugs and screwing other women. He was even taken to court for child support and got away with years of not paying. Fast forward to now, he is married to someone that works in CS enforcement and he pays outside of the court system. Fot several years when my son was 11 I tried to get this man to spend time with his son only for him to come up with excuse after excuse. Now all of a sudden he wants.to spend ti.r with my son, but my son is not interested saying his father doesn’t know him and clearly aware of him being absent for all of those prior years. Jis father is verbally abusive to me when he doesn’t get his way amd personally I don’t think he has any say so whether he can see his son or not at this point. He is very unhealthy emotionally and clearly has a lot of growing up to do.
Addendum to last comment. I forgot to mention my son is now almost 15 so for 4 years I tried to get this man to interact with my son on a regular basis to which he failed miserably and now wants to see him. Now that my son is almost an adult he wants to demand to see him. My son doesn’t want to stay at his home, he will only agree to spend a few hours with him every.other weekend which is ok with me. Do not judge me or my reasoning for this when you don’t have the whole story.
If there is coaching from the custodial parent your theory may have some but only some merit. Fortunately my position is just the opposite more often than not my ex spouse chooses to not exercise her right to visitation and there is no court in the land that will force her to honour her commitments and obligation the children. I definitely call bullshit on your practice. Most of your arguments presented are in either or form, can a child choose to do what’s not in their best interest as opposed to being forced to do what’s in there best interest? In that case the answer is no. Having said that forcing visits on a child is not always in their best interest. As for parents having a right to influence their children’s lives that goes along way to explaining the high rate of substance abuse in children of split families. To put it bluntly their crack head parents have been allowed to influence their lives. Forcing a child to spend 2 hours with anyone they dont want to be with is akin to kidnaping and unlawful confinement.
Is there any point in trying to go back to court when a custodial parent says a child doesn’t have to visit? The custodial parent will bring one child, but not the older one. Then tell the younger child that she can make her own decisions about what time to meet and so forth. It might not seem that bad, but the custodial parent moved 4 hours more away. We spent thousands of dollars on a court order that appears unenforceable. With just three years of (possible) visitation left, what can really be gained by going back to court?
Or is there anything that can be done?
My ex wife does that to me all the time and I hate her for doing that to me. I love my girls and only see them every other week. But since 2010 she tells me instead of asking me if I mind that they are not coming to see me on my weekend. I live 3 hours from them so when I get them I drive 2 hours one way compared to her 1 hour drive one way and she refuses to drive any further. But that is not my worry not seeing my kids when I’m supposed to is my worry. In order for me to do something about it I would have to take a day off from work drive 3 hours one way just to do the paperwork to take her to court which only takes 5 minutes to do just to get a court date and take another day off for court. She knows I can’t afford to do that so that’s why she does it to me. Over the last few years she has made me think to myself many times why do I even try to stay in their lives but I’ve never acted on it but I have told her that she makes it wear sometimes I hate being a dad and I should not ever have to feel like that ever. The only thing I ask for is when our kids are supposed to come to me I want them nothing more. It’s very frustrating and hard.
Currently in our fifth round of court visits…the only difference this time is my step children now reside with us full time! Both children (twins) have been subjected to emotional and physical abuse at the hands of their mother and step father.
They are nine…and both live in fear of ever having to see their mother again. As a mother myself to my own two children I can imagine how hard it must be if you are told your children don’t wish to see you, but I wouldn’t encourage two 9 year old to ring up and say they don’t want to see there mother (which is what their mother wants them to do).
We have asked for help and support to build relationships from social services (who placed the children in our care) the police, the doctors and all have failed miserably in helping any of us!
What are we supposed to do to help our whole family? Force two nine year old a kicking and screaming crying to go to someone they dislike and fear? Absolutely horrific that people think it is not emotionally more damaging for everyone involved for that to take place!
Apparently we are all so wrapped up in the NCPs “rights” to see the child that it doesnt matter whether they are a good or bad parent. Oh and the teens dont have any rights either I suppose. The entire timesharing guidelines need to be revised to include what really is best for the child, not what rights the parents have.
This site and thread is garbage, bunch of attorneys looking for money or ncp’s that are to salty to see their own fck ups
Let the kids choose, scary isnt it
I love those who assume the NCP is trash and the CP is the one looking out for the kids. Let the kids choose? Sorry, I won’t by a 16 year old a $19,000 car, she will. I lose.
Only 19k for a new car?
That’s a pretty good deal
Lol
Lightly used. Ridiculous for a 16 year old with poor grades.
I am the custodial parent and I live in FL, the dad lives in NY. I moved here legally and I have full custody of the child. I encourage communication with her father and I encourage visitation but I also encourage him to make more of an effort to make her feel comfortable enough to go with him for a long period of time. He makes an effort when it’s convenient but has taken me to court twice already in NY, in which I call on the phone. The judge has dismissed his petition for more visitation, in the court order it says visitation should be discussed among the parents. He refuses to talk to me on the phone and he texts in a manner thats almost condescending. I told him he could have spring break, a few weeks in the summer and christmas break this year. He didn’t take spring break and wants over a month in the summer but my daughter said she will go with him the max is 3 weeks. I keep telling him that if he wants her to be with him longer then he has to make her feel comfortable. He’s arrogant and egotistical. He continues to threaten me with court and now he says he’s going to get a lawyer. I’m not refusing him to see his daughter. He’s only made this difficult since I filed for full custody and to move. Before that, he would go weeks without seeing her or any contact at all. This is just a power trip for him but its giving me anxiety and grief. I understand he can’t see her when he wants but I believe he should show her how much he loves and cares for her. He has 3 other kids, one is a baby and he refuses to send a picture of the baby to my daughter and he was born in October. I’m stressed with this situation and I’m sorry for the novel.
My only question would be, is there really much of a difference between 3 weeks and one month? It would be one thing if he was a terrible father, abusive, etc who she isn’t even comfortable spending one day with but she says she’s willing to go 3 weeks so clearly that isn’t the case. Legally or not, and whether or not he’s a jerk, you did move her away from him so for the sake of keeping the peace, keeping your sanity, and keeping it out of court (which is always best for the kids/family), you should maybe consider compromising. I’m not condoning his behavior at all, he does sound like a jerk, but you could make it easier as well.
The reason that was my question is because it was the argument my guy used in court. His narcissistic ex tried to tell the court she didn’t want him to have 2 more days per month because he’s an alcoholic (not true at all!). She lost because they said he already has them 11 days – if he truly was a danger to the kids, she would be fighting for him not to have them at all. 13 days per month doesn’t make them any less safe than 11 days would.
I am just now skimming through everyone’s responses and I came across this blog whips searching for parental rights and responsibilities. From a legal aspect, shouldnt each situation be looked over sensitively? These are little kids we are talking about here, proving that the other parent is emotional harmful is very difficult. I don’t make my 13 year old daughter go to her dads. She ends up calling me crying because he makes her so uncomfortable and he allows his friends to call her names and make sexual remarks to her. I can’t prove this. How am I supposed to prove that? She doesn’t want to go. He decided a long time ago he didn’t want to be a “weekend dad” so I have them legally, Wednesday through Sunday. They meaning our 9 year old son and 13 year old daughter. They usually get on the bus Monday morning from my house and come back Wednesday afternoon off the bus. Well, what’s your opinion. My son likes going because they basically do nothing but play outside. Bio dad doesn’t work, has a crappy house, ridiculous rules, talk shit about all women, and treats them differently then one another. HOW can I prove this? And I’m supposed to make her go there? He laughs at me and says I’m filling her head with lies and the only reason why she stays is because I have no “rules”. Ugh. It’s a mess. I pay for everything, he doesn’t work, he refuses to pay child support, we finally settled after an 8 year battle in two different states, that we would split custody half the week. I try emailing changes in the schedule he never writes back or confirms. When please tell me when can they be old enough to at least decide when they want to visit? I mean seriously. She’s pre teen, puberty, on her periods when she doesn’t want to go there because he refuses to help her and says gross strange things to her. Really, I’m supposed to do what? Drop her off in tears? And leave? He’s a total child when it comes to communicating and cannot see any other side but his. As for my son, he comes back from his dad’s, in a different mood for the first day. He tells me his dad does nothing but complain about me and how his daughter won’t visit. Ugh
*can I also add in, I DO honestly give them the freedom and choice to go or stay. I think as far as I can tell their dad abides, but also then uses it against us. I always ask my daughter to try to talk to him or go there, she often replies “what’s the point he won’t listen”. It’s sad. I feel sad for her, and that he’s missing out on spending time with his child. I encourage them both to go to see him, sometimes relentlessly. My son always goes and that’s great. My daughter… Lately these past couple weeks just won’t go more than one day a week. I have offered to him to change the schedule or days or custody or whatever would work, he just won’t do it or budge or try. His answer is always, “I’ll think about it”. This is also the answer he gives them, and her for the past 13 years. No commitment no follow through nothing and now she knows that and sees it and I can see she is giving up trying to talk to him. I’ve been trying to tell him and email him, he needs to try harder with her. He just hates me anyway so it’s no use.
Im the custodial parent of 3 kids..ages 21b,19b,17g now. Their dad stopped communication from them 5 years ago. I requested a modification on CS based on my youngest medical issues. Because of that he dragged me to court trying to find me in contempt for not allowing to see his children. Obviously I saved all proof so I wasn’t found in contempt. My youngest two shared diagnosed of PTSD, Anxiety, depression,gastritis, acid reflux and migraines…but only my 19 boy has esquizophrenia.
We come from domestic violence and they have been in counseling for the last 4 years. The judge granted make up time sharing with her (since she didn’t listen to what my daughter had to say) The sharing time didn’t happen since my daughter ended up in a behavioral hospital after several attempts of her father pressuring his court order at us and she refusing each time on spot at the presence of a police officer. He stopped after she was baker act. I called CPS and they opened a case to protect my daughter even against the judge. I’m so hurt because that man took so much from us…even took my daughter last opportunity to graduate from high school. She was having one last shoot to graduate since her medical issues was paying a toll in her education but she was making it happen. …until he showed up back again in her life. …she was hold back again and this time has been so hard to help her. I’m still waiting on him to show his financial since feb/2016 so we can proceed to trial. So to whoever wrote this ….not every case is BS. We have a right to protect our children from abuser narcissistic men.
Thank everyone for their input. It has helped with insight as to my struggle. My daughter visited and Easter and was excited about coming back for the summer. Her mom and I are in the midst of a custody case. The doctor who completed the evaluation found alienation with my son, 11, but stated that with my daughter, 15, the signs of alienation are not always visible. He recommended that my son comes with me to live and that I would be the better custodial parent. Alienation is something I struggled with my daughter, and now my son, ever since the courts allowed her mom to move out of state. There has been a number of calls over the years, similar to the call I received today from my daughter, stating that she only wanted to come for part of the summer and that she wanted to find a job, do a class at a local trade school and be near high school friends. She could not provide me with a place she had in mind to work or information as to the classes she wanted to take. When I asked her to provide me that information and we would talk she yelled at me and hung up. Same thing that has happened before for different things when she is at her moms for a extended time. I feel as if her mom should have come to me and discuss my daughters goals and not allow her to call and yell at me. It has been working up to this were my daughter has not responded to calls and her mom ignores my text asking to speak to my daughter. I feel that the history and recent custody report verify my concerns as to alienation and that if my daughter was mature enough to have constructive goals for the summer she would not yell and hang up. I do not blame her as I know where she is lacks structure and her mom promises the moon.
I am a bio mom to two children, and a step mother to one. My step daughter is 14, I married her Father when she was 7. That same year her bio-mom moved away, across the country. Bio mom wanted the child full time when she was 9 years old. Up until my sd moved, she made approx. 3 visits a year. SD returned after one school year, refusing to ever return. Many reason were given, and she has remained with us. At 11 years of age, sd left for what was to be a month visit (Summer), as usual. SD called crying demanding to return home after 3 days, we made her stay a full week, at which point she demanded to return home, bio mom agreed. Cause was determined to be bio mom got drunk, to the point of vomiting, this was confirmed and promised, by bio mom, to never happen again. It was mutually agreed by both bio parents and child, that further visits will be conducted in the child’s home state from now on. Bio mom has two other children here, that do not live with her, so the benefit is obvious. Fast forward to a year ago, sd makes weekly calls with bio mom, only 3 out of all the calls were horrible. Bio mom called drunk on 3 occasions crying and telling the sd things such as “Your Dad didn’t even want you, I have to force him into having you” The other two calls were drunk cuss sessions, yes we have heard them to be sure the sd was not over exaggerating. We sought help with our youth pastor and with sd’s school counselor, to step in and attempt to mediate the situation. Bottom line is we have a young lady who is an honor student, athlete, who sings and volunteers all of her free time at church and in the teen homeless shelters here in our city. SD is doing well overall until the bio moms recently told her “you need to come visit me, or I will have your father put in jail”. While both parents agreed via email all visits would be done in town, he never filed it with the courts. Following the call we caught sd attempting to “cut” herself. We as her every day parents feel like failures for this, but glad we found out (by doing a check on her cell phone text mesg.)
We are seeking therapy and have offered the bio mom a place to stay, and a car free of charge during her stay in our home town for visits, if she would please not force sd to visit her in her home state, we are also trying to not to be held in contempt. Bio mom has utilized our offer recently, staying with my mother in law, but is still demanding the daughter visit her in her state for a month, status quo has been not as such since 2011…….we want the two to have a healthy relationship, and we have gotten therapy involved, all to no avail. What would you suggest?
T.-
It is very rare I would support most custodial parents as many, especially in a contentious case, can be both heartless and selfish with a perspective on some degree to look at children as a possession of their own to some level. You are that rare exception per what you have said.
The only thing I will say about the child is listen to her and do the best you can on her behalf. Don’t get into the way of a relationship with the bio-mom even though she has her issues. Instead you may need to consider a motion to modify the visitation that visitation takes place near where you live rather than sending her away. Seeing that the bio-mom has not invested into the relationship and until she can show otherwise.
Take care of yourself.
My Daughter is 12yrs old I live in North Dakota I have custody of both of my daughters my 12yr old dont want to go see her mom cause the mom never wants to be a part of her life but always wants to be in our other daughters life i tell my daughter that she has to go and she wont go and tells me all they do is argue and fight and her mom treats her pets better then her so what should i do on this matter im writing a letter to the judge to see if he will modify the visitions
Rodney
Writing a letter to the judge will be a waste of your time. Seeing your 12 year old is a preteen it is normal that they feel left out, argue with a parent (normally mother’s have a more difficult time due to the same sex) and can be compounded by a divorce. The more effective idea is to validate your daughter’s concerns then have a civil conversation with your ex if possible. If she is reasonable she take the time to invest into the 12 yo. Judges make decisions but not necessarily the best decision in the long term for a child as their decision is only an immediate temporary fix.
Invest the time in your daughter and work something out with the ex. Show your daughter how to have patience and grace. In doing so you will be building into her for the long term rather than capitulating to her wants or demands.
I hope it helps. I would like to see how things go.
UPDATE
for those who have chimed in either in agreeance or disagreeance with my situation, after failed therapeutic visits, the judge wanted to try supervised visits through casa. I realize i am legally obligated to take child to visit and be supportive of the visits, which i have done, so let’s clear that out right now.
First visit, i take child to visit and encourage her to say whatever she wants to say to the mother. We arrive, and casa supervisor comes out to talk to child and give her a “safe word” in case she gets uncomfortable. Child says she does not want to visit, casa supervisor cancels visit and sends us home explaining to me that she is not qualified to handle this kind of situation. Visit #2, i cancel visit because child got taken to hospital via ambulance from school. Visit #3, we show up to the visit, casa supervisor comes out to talk to child, child explains to supervisor she wishes to see her mother in order to tell her face to face that she does not want to do this, supervisor explains that that is not necessarily what these visits are for, but will agree, but then explains to me that the mother hasn’t even showed up and cancels the visit and sends us home. Keep in mind, every week im in touch with casa admin, just staying in touch and being as fully cooperative as i possibly can be. Admin schedules a 1v1 with child and admin to hear childs concerns. We do it, all further visits cancelled and status report sent to court. Admin explains to me that this isn’t what casa is really for.
Now we wait for the review date with the judge.
I tried to keep this short and to the point, didn’t really work
You did the right thing Justin. Seeing she has not made the effort it is likely the judge will revoke her parental rights. As long as you and she did what you were supposed to do it is up to the judge to remedy the issue.
I pray the best for you and your daughter. As for the CASA I am a little confused if she is not qualified for such a visitation, why was she appointed and why is she licensed? It just shows further how deficient the judicial system is. It is sad. Sorry you had to experience the frustration.
Thank you chris, i appreciate your feedback! As for the casa supervisor on the 1st visit, her is what she said to me
“These are usually happy visits, im not qualified or trained to deal with unhappy visits, usually the children are much younger and happy to see both parents.”
This is an odd circumstance, a 15 year old that absolutely doesnt know her mother, its not like we seperated the other month or anything like that, ive raised my daughter since 6 months old, alone.
Other things i would like to say. ….
Do i think all ncp’s are garbage? Absolutely not, some are probably better parents then the cp, and to those that are. ….i wish you nothing but the absolute best, god i hope it works out for you
But to those that believe a parent has a right no matter what, i say, what the hell is wrong with you.
Would you force YOUR 15 year old, highly intelligent, perfectly adjusted child, to sit in a room, with an absolute stranger, and make them interact just to make the stranger feel better about themselves? ?? Would you really?
When the child, (who is 15) is ready, then so be it
Other’s say, “you force your child to go to school”, actually. ……no i don’t, she wants to go school, she wants to be educated, sometimes i tell her she can take a day off, but guess what, she doesn’t
“You force you’re child to bath”, wrong again, i wish i could force my child to not bath so much, she uses up all the hot water
Laws regarding custody and visitation are very skewed, mostly pro mother, these things need to be taken on a case by case basis, there should be no standard protocol.
What I don’t understand in these cases when a teenager doesn’t want to visit the other parent, why is the burden of proof put on the custodial parent to prove that no intentional alienation has gone on? Why does the non custodial parent get away with making these false charges, and not have to take accountability for their own actions that caused the teenager to not like them?
Why does the court system not want to acknowledge how damaging verbal and emotional abuse is to a teenager? Just as long as the parent isn’t a drug addict, molester, physical abuser, this makes them a good parent?
When court appointed counseling has taken place and the teenager is telling the parent that they don’t trust them, that they caught them in lies, that they want them to take responsibility for their actions, then shouldn’t the parent that is supposed to be the ADULT make the necessary adjustments and try to behave properly?
When a court appointed counselor is willing to testify that she observed no alienation, but the court then still frowns upon the custodial parent because the teenager doesn’t want to go. The court then says that the custodial parent is “empowering” the teenager. Put a smile on your face and tell the teenager “it will be fun”. As if the teenager doesn’t have their own feelings or a brain in their own head. (Btw, the teenager has always gone, but she is BEGGING not to)
As parents, just as long as we don’t kill, molest, or do drugs, all parents are considered equal. Shame on the system.
Just as some parents alienate, other parents capatilize on the alienation defense when really they were just a horrible absent parent.
It’s detrimental to not have both parents in the childs lives is all I hear. Wait till they grow up, they will have problems. Well then, where are the case studies from teenagers who were forced to be with emotional manipulaters and who are now adults? How did this affect them?
The court doesn’t care. They expect the parents to figure it out. If they can’t, then the court sticks it to the custodial parent that has raised the child, and favors the non custodial absent parent now playing the victim.
Kids are smart. They can easily figure out when they are being used in a battle. Sadly, when the kid turns eighteen, she’s ready to say F U to the parent that has played the games.
Hi Greg,
I have 3 daughters that I’ve been raising for the past 10 months alone because their father was in jail. The year before that was awful and my older two girls had to see a lot of behavior that they shouldn’t have. Mental, emotional abuse, drug use, violence, etc…He pawned almost everything we owned. The girls’ televisions, bikes, game systems, the washer and dryer.. it just goes on. None the less, He is out of jail now. I was granted temporary sole custody and he was given supervised visitations every other saturday for 8 hours. My oldest one was adamant about not going to see him. And The first visit she did not go. I didn’t want to force the relationship. She’s hurt, and angry and honestly I felt if i forced her to go, she would shut down and it would cause a screaming match. Her younger sister came home after the visitation with stories of how they went to the mall, out to lunch, got ice cream, and went shopping. He bought them bikes, clothes and shoes. But told my middle one that her older sister couldn’t have her material things until she spent time with him. I can understand both sides of this. He bought those things for them because of his guilt from selling them due to his drug addiction. But I feel he bought them with the wrong intentions. And then used her sister to relay the message to make her jealous. But she’s a kid. And bikes and shopping sound appealing to a kid.
This weekend is the next visit. My oldest one has decided to go over there, and in my opinion, for the wrong reasons…
Is this sending the wrong message? She didn’t want to visit until she knew there were gifts. Should I require her to visit from now on since I know she’s open to the relationship? I want to keep the manipulation to a minimum as much as I can. I don’t want her to think she can call the shots but I want her comfortable.
Thanks!
Missy-
I see your concern, but I would look at this as a good learning opportunity for your child. Here are the 2 scenarios you are looking at.
1) If you don’t allow her to go and she still hears stories from the other sibling getting things she is not or at least has that in her mind and wants to verify if it is true or not, at the end of the day she will have resentment towards you as she will feel you are in her way to either gain or at least find out the truth of the situation.
2) If you let her go and what he says is not true her resentment will be cast on him and you come out looking like a rose because he looses credibility.
Be careful how the other parent is parenting the children, unless there is proof of abuse (physical especially). In the matter of micromanaging the other parent and their actions will be looked at by the child as you interfering with their decisions either now or later on down the road. There is a balance of boundaries then there is a balance of micromanaging. Be careful that your concentration is not on how the other parent is parenting and more on what your house rules are and how you can provide for them both material wise as well as life lessons as it will be your benefit in obtaining a healthy relationship with your children.
Chris,
My wife has a 16 yo girl and 15 yo boy who typically spend a summer month at my house 100 miles away from their custodial parents residence. This summer they are refusing to visit for the month because they will have “jobs.” Typically my wife gets them two weekends every three months so this “can’t come up for the month” is devastating as it means there will be no more long term visits likely for her lifetime.
Any suggestions as to strategies to pursue? From reading this column and the responses it looks like litigation against the father has a low probability of success.
Thanks!
Interested Stepfather
Hmmm….you bring up an interesting dilemma that requires a parent to step back for a minute and assess the bigger picture. It is hard to say why they are making this determination until you look at if there has been a long term resistance in both visitation and communication. Let’s take the best case scenario and it is what they are saying it is that they have a job but you have good communication. In something like this it requires a parent to respect that they have a job but try to negotiate some time together. Maybe this would require you to take some time off towards the end of the summer and spend a week with them and around the 4th of July have them come for a long weekend (seeing Independence Day is on Monday) in lieu of the month long time. At least with this compromise you are showing them you respect what they want to do even when you don’t get exactly what you want but at least you get some type of visitation. It is likely that the 15 yo is not old enough to have a job as most jobs are slim and would go to older teens first unless it is with a family friend or someone they know.
Now if it is the worst case scenario where communication and visitation has been rough and they have been combative it is likely that it would have to go before a judge for them to figure out and let the kids know the rules of the game and what they can and cannot do. You must understand if things go down this road you may get what you want but there may be consequences where they would be combative and may make false allegations against you to try to stop all visitation as a whole.
You will have to weigh out the best course and typically teens will make waves, regardless if there is a divorce or not, just to get their way and will pull out all stops.
Good luck and I pray the best for you.
My ex has primary physical custody of my child (4 years old)– we have gone through one year of visits (I have had to contact law enforcement two times due to their refusal to let me see my child). I live out of state and my child and ex are suppose to come here for three weeks. My child is to stay with me and my ex is to stay where-ever they choose. My ex is now refusing to bring our child to my state because they claim child said “I don’t want to”. Isn’t 4 years old too young for a child to decide? I know that my ex has not done any prep to make this trip exciting (ex: talk about the state I live in, explain how exciting and fun it will be…etc). If they were to talk about the visit in a positive way then shouldn’t the child be more excited? I would respect their decision if they were 10 and had visited with me before; all of our previous visits have been in hotels or at a family’s home because I do not live in the same state, forcing me out of my comfort zone.
I guess my main question is — is 4 years old too young to determine whether they want to visit or not, and what is a strategy you would suggest to talk and discuss with my ex? I would like to explain the importance of working together to ensure our child feels comfortable visiting.
I worded my question wrong — I know that 4 years old is too young to determine if they want to visit or not. They are new to the world and cannot even imagine what it all means. How do I speak to my ex about this situation. I do not want to take any more legal actions, but I am concerned I will have to.
I am a single mother from an extremely violent past relationship. The father has had no contact with my now 7 yr old son since he was 18 months old, when i finally got the courage to get my son and i out of the situation. Now the father is in family court requesting contact and it looks like he may get supervised access despite the documented history of violence and my son having 4 yrs of intense therapy because of it. By all accounts, SEC, Docs, etc, i am acting in the best interests of my child and not being a scornful ex. Yet supervised contact is looking like the likely outcome. I am terrified of my son having any contact with the father. In my view, supervised contact leads to unsupervised contact, and that is when the trouble starts. The father will be on his best behaviour untill he has unfettered acces to the child and then my son is in mortal danger. And unless i flee with my son or refuse to obey final access orders, which of course i can be charged with, there is nothing i can do to protect us. I agree the system fails parents that are decent and just want to see the kids, yet it also fails parents like me, who aren’t being spiteful and just want to protect the child. Suffer the children under this system.
Sorry SEW, not sec.
My ex has not exercised his right to visitation in about a year. Now all of a sudden he wants to come visit and it is outside of the court ordered visitation schedule. Am I obligated to allow him visitation or do I have the right to say no? I did tell him it was ok for him to see our son but he needed to follow the court order. He chose not to follow the order and now wants him on another day. Help! I don’t want to break any laws but I don’t feel its fair for him to come out of no where and demand things of me, especially since he hasn’t seen him in over a year and doesn’t pay his support. What do I do?
You are obligated to follow the court appointed schedule, and so is he, nothing more, nothing less
Whether or not he has paid any support has no bearing on visitation, and is a seperate issue in the eyes of the courts
Best of luck to you
I am a product of what happens when a judge and legal decide they know what’s best for a child. Even after my mother said in open court she didn’t want me, they sent me back to her. I ended up being abused and neglected until I turned 18. Yes, some parents use their children as leverage but not all. And so say that parents rights trump kids rights is not only selfish but inconsiderate.