When I first started practicing family law I would encounter a number of visitation enforcement hearings in which the custodial parent tried to excuse his or her failure to have the children visit with the other parent because “the children didn’t want to.” Occasionally, and much to my frustration, the judges would sometimes accept this excuse and not find the custodial parent in contempt. Early in my career I didn’t have an effective counter to these parents’ claims other than to hope the judge would enforce the order rather than buy the custodial parent’s excuse. It has been my more recent experience that, absent evidence of abuse, the court doesn’t accept these excuses as frequently.
However, in the interim, I have developed what I believe is an effective cross examination technique for a custodial parent who testifies that he or she won’t force the children to visit the other parent because the children don’t want to. I ask them what other things they expect their children to do that they don’t require them to do when they don’t want to. Can the children refuse to do their chores/eat their vegetables/practice their violin/brush their teeth if they don’t want to? Can their children drink bourbon for breakfast when they don’t want to drink milk? Can their children have sex with their boyfriend/girlfriend when they don’t want to spend the afternoon studying? Can their children go to the beach when they don’t want to go to school?
There’s a heck of a lot of things that parents force their children to do because they’re the parent and they decide what’s good for their child. Visiting the non-custodial parent–assuming the child really doesn’t want to visit and also assuming there’s no abuse going on–is one of those things the courts should be forcing upon the children and custodial parent. If the situation with the non-custodial parent gets bad enough, it should be the custodial parent’s obligation to seek an order reducing the other parent’s visitation, rather than simply denying visitation and expecting the court to not enforce its own orders.
Only one time in my career have I seen a child refuse to visit the non-custodial parent when the custodial parent supported the visitation and, in that case, the parties eventually agreed to forgo the non-custodial parent’s visitation when it became clear in (court-ordered) counseling why the child didn’t want to visit. I was hoping that the courts were getting away from letting children, with the support of the custodial parent, decide their own (lack of) visitation and that the courts were gradually seeing that this unwillingness to visit was frequently tied to the custodial parent’s disregard for the other parent. However, just today, I have discussed or been involved in three situations in which visitation has been denied because the custodial parent supported the child(ren)’s decision not to visit. It may be time to dust off my “bourbon for breakfast” script.
Greg,
I am sure as a lawyer that you have seen tons of cases where the custodial parent was being vindictive against the non custodial parent. I know that this happens and I am totally against it, however in my case the father of my oldest two children that my husband and I raise had not been in there lives except for when he deemed it necessary for him to see them. I’ve never (nor has my husband ever) denied him access or visitation time with our children. Over the years he has chosen to come and go as he pleases never remembering birthday’s or even visiting them during the holidays. Last year he took me to court for custody citing that we never gave him any “parenting time” with the children, when our case was finally heard in court the judge ask him had he contacted the children? His answer was no, he did not want to cause trouble, no one ever said that he could not come and see them. The judge was not buying his excuse, so she asked if he had made any attempts to contact myself or my husband to see the children and again he said no, now we did try and contact him only to be berated with insults, and have curse words thrown at us so we ended the phone call and I immediately informed my lawyer of the incident. Needless to say he did not win the case we continue to raise our children and he did receive visitation to which we abide by our states normal visitation form. He however does not he comes when he wants and cuts out when he wants did not celebrate their birthdays but expects them to celebrate his step children’s birthdays. I guess my reason for writing this is to let you know that there are still some good custodial parents out here we raise our children without the aid of the other party involved and we don’t complain about it, never would and never will. I hope that something I have said here today will give good custodial parents strength that you’re not alone in raising your children and just because the person that we may have chosen does not have the standards or morals that we try to instill in our children does not mean that we are not doing a good job. Blessings.
I have the same situation. I have begged him to be involved and help. He only chooses to for a short while when he has a new girlfriend but it never lasts. He won’t stick to a visitation schedule or keep his word about anything he tells them he will do. He doesn’t pay child support either so if my kids say no they don’t want to talk to him or see him I give them that option cuz he has the dn option to do that to them mr thinks he knows it all lawyer
Mr. Forman, I just wanted to see if my Daughters Bio dad had any real rights. He after not seeing or calling for four years wants to file for joint custody, only because my husband wanted to adopt my Daughter. We were NEVER married and he’s never been apart of our lives in 12 years. does not pay child support as he has been directed by the court. He asked me for $15,000 to save his farm and then and only then would he sign papers to give up his rights. Asked the very next day if I wanted to pay him and when I said no he, said fine that he would be talking to a attorney for custody for the summers. Can he do that? My Daughter has been in competitive gymnastics for several years now and I have NEVER asked anything from him. Summer is when she goes to gymnastic camp and this year has been chosen to be a speaker in DC. She does not want to see him nor does she know him to stay any length of time alone with him. I don’t even know him and have not had any contact with any of his family in 12 years. Should I be concerned?
I would be concerned. He does have rights if he didn’t sign them away. He can go to court and they may start visitations off slowly for them to get to know one another. If you want him to stay out of the picture since it seems he is all about money and not really wanting a relationship, stay low and don’t seek adoption. Sounds like that got the bio father thinking.
My situation is a little different my step daughter is regusing to go to her mothers house because her new step father is making her feel uncomfortable because of staring at her body while in bathing suit etc…. he has given her the creeps for a while as we expressed our concern to the mother she has dismissed it…. as of now the mother has not asked for daughter since in fear of loosing the roof over her head im assuming. We are at loss on what to do…. should we file for supervised visitation in fear that she will force daughter to come with her?
I too have a similar issue going on, but instead of a step father, it is a girlfriend. It is difficult to make a judgment call on this, because you can be painted as a vindictive ex, and instead of protecting the child, the target is painted onto you and you could be the one who gets supervised visitation, or forced shared custody if these people are convincing enough with the court.
I am all for having the child speak to the judge, as this helps take you out of the middle. But the judge can refuse to speak to the children as well, as I recently found out when my attorney requested it in my recent hearing for contempt filed against me when my kids refused to be around my husband’s live in girlfriend. They are all teenagers, and she is a nut case who keeps everyone in turmoil. My husband refuses to keep her in check around the kids, and it all goes downhill fast…
In fact, he will tell the kids it is their fault. It is truly crazy making for them and for me, when I get the blame for parental alienation.
I am still awaiting the judge’s decision. My attorney had the kid’s therapist testify in the hearing that she recommends that he have the kids without the girlfriend present, and refrain from drinking when he has visitation. This only to find out that nothing stops him from doing either, as there is nothing in place to monitor the situation…
OK, avoid court at all costs, but protect your daughter by putting her into therapy with a psychologist, (not a social worker), because they hold more sway with the court. Be clear on why you are having her in therapy, (I told our kids’ psychologist they were having issues with the situation surrounding our divorce).
I was acting as the buffer between the kids and their father until he filed the charges when I refused to settle on his terms. When a parent refuses to take actions to protect their children, instead of taking the side of the child, it is truly frightening, but all too common. These people place themselves above all others, and this is when they show their true colors. Be there for your daughter. Apparently, you are all she has to stand by her as a parent should.
I am not so impressed with your approach. It’s not exactly some earth-shattering new perspective. It is legal BS to attempt to get a win. In fact, the focus should not be the parents, but rather the children.
Consider this;
Some kids really DON’T want to go with the (non-custodial parent) and not because the custodial parent has alienated their affection, but because the non-custodial parent has done that all by themselves. There are good and bad parents, this is true, and allowing a child to dictate the household is one thing, but I think it’s irresponsible not to determine what the reasons are behind the child’s discontent. To immediately call” BS” may not be in the best interest of the child who is struggling and refusing to go to the non-custodial parent’s house and, in fact, it might be a dangerous and irresponsible stance to take.
Every case is different but let’s not be blind. There are rotten parents who care nothing about the emotional or physical needs of their children. There are parents who are so narcissistic, that even a child can sense it! The “encouraging” custodial parent doesn’t have it easy either, often times turning into a liar to the child who is forced to visit, and into the adult who can’t protect them or be their voice-and it’s a horrible, horrible thing to witness, both for the child but also the parent who feels helpless to fix it. It is heart-wrenching to watch as a mother has to force her hysterical six-year old to go with their father. It shouldn’t be that way! Now, we all know it’s not illegal to be a narcissist, to be uncaring, or to be emotionally “vacant”. But it’s sad to think that when the children have made it home safely from the non-custodial parent, you sigh in relief.
So when the court’s just default to what is most common, be sure that we have done due diligence for the CHILDREN. I agree that children should respect both parents and this should be encouraged. Have you ever watched while a child you love is forced into a situation that is causing horrible emotional and physical stress, watched while the custodial Mom lies to them just to calm them down while understanding that part of the problem is that they know she is lying just to get them to go, and they know she has no power over the situation. Then we have created a larger problem; who then CAN they feel safe with? Who IS actually there to protect them? And God forbid, you don’t want to hash out all the reasons in court in an attempt to solve the problem because you fear someone will call “BS” on you.
Fathers, mothers, lawyers and judges need to find a way to always put the CHILDREN first. If a child is resisting it could be due to something as little as they want to spend time with friends during my school break in which case parents should be encouraged by the courts to be flexible. Kids were not built to be raised in two households. But also, I worry that more severe cases like abuse or other trauma will be overlooked with this so-called “defense.” Accusations of abuse or neglect are more often just being viewed by the courts as some tactic between disgruntled divorcees and not taken seriously at all. This type of “justice” is forcing the mother to choose the lesser of two very horrible evils. Where is the justice for the child in this instance?
As far as the children who don’t want to visit or who refuse- put yourself in a kid’s shoes- they didn’t ask to be pulled from one parent to another; they didn’t ask to be forced to go spend every other weekend in a strange home without a bed. Although divorce has become a social “norm” and adults seem to move on from their ex rather quickly, children have a more difficult time of it and the adults need to be adults and help them transition by truly listening, not taking offense and doing what they can to soften the blow, even if that means eating a little crow sometimes.
-excerpted from larger article.
My daughter just called me crying because my 9 year old granddaughter is hysterical about going to see her dad next weekend. She’s coming up for a visit with me and he doesn’t have visitation next weekend. Amanda just suggested since they’d be near her Dad’s house maybe she’d like to see him for a few days. I don’t agree that forcing a child to go against their will is not harmful to the child. She’s already upset about having to spend the whole summer with him. We tell her the truth that Daddy can have Mommy arrested for disobeying a court order and that the judge decided she has to go. We tell her that when she’s older the judge will care more about what she thinks and hopefully she can get the visitation time in the summer reduced to a length of time she will feel comfortable with. Unfortunately, her Dad and his Mom, says things to her like you don’t love us, that’s why you don’t want to come, or you thing your too good for us, because your stepdad has more money. It’s terrible to watch her get all worked up, she even has nightmares and tummy aches from the stress when it gets closer to going to see her father.
what website?
Thank you Steven Hurt, you just stated my case in a nutshell. I am fighting an awful custody battle. My son is going to be 16 this June and he cannot stand even the sound of his father’s voice. The courts, and his father are trying to make me the parent who is doing the alienation. Even my own lawyer made light of our situation making statements to the effect that my son doesn’t want to go over there because there are rules there. While I have not been the strongest of disciplinarians, what goes on there is far beyond strict rules and is clearly emotional and mental abuse. My son cannot sleep the night before any scheduled visits with his father. He literally lies awake until sunrise. His father tells him he is crazy, he needs help, and that his thinking is schizophrenic, because he cannot even begin to look at what his own behavior has done to his son emotionally. You described how I feel exactly, and how I have felt since my son was a baby and he would cling to my leg and beg not to go to daddy’s. I felt helpless, I feel as if I am being condemned for my God given maternal instincts that tell me to support my son’s feelings and protect him from the abuse. I am told by a faulty system, than by honoring my son’s feelings and protecting him, I am somehow violating someone else’s rights and I am facing legal consequences. Perhaps even putting my son at a greater danger of being placed in his father’s custody entirely!
Tressa, Have you or the court involved a therapist/guardian ad litem? I sensed what was coming, and knew that my children were going to need support and guidance due to the excessive emotional upheaval in the home due to a contentious relationship between my soon to be ex and me.
I sought the services of reputable psychologists, one for my daughters and one for my son, (as I thought he would benefit from the guidance of a male therapist). After assessing the situation, BOTH gave their advice on how to deal with the narcissistic tendencies of my husband.
My son’s psychologist advised that I do not encourage a relationship between my son and his father, as the emotional distance that existed was a defense mechanism for my son, who saw his father clearly for the non-empathetic, disordered person he is.
My daughters’ therapist said that since my husband is so narcissistic, he basically “hands over” damaging evidence on a silver platter, as I had saved many of his text messages to me and our children that were pretty outrageous, and our children were well into their teens, I could basically drag it out beyond their eighteenth birthday, when they would legally be able to choose on their own.
He filed a motion for contempt, saying I was denying him his parenting time, and alienating the children from him. What happened was after our daughters’ therapist testified, the judge ruled that my husband could not have his live-in girlfriend around our children during his parenting time, so if she is going to be around, they don’t have to go, and he cannot force them. She is as narcissistic as he is, and has a solid mental health “history” that we could bring up, if push came to shove.
Isn’t it sad that telling the truth is not always enough, and that judges will force children into these abusive circumstances in many cases?
Keep up the good fight, and get support for your son by way of therapy, if you haven’t done so already. Let him know you are there for him in every way you can be, and that this Hell will not always be his life, or yours. I am praying for you and your son.
This is my exact experience. Thank you SO much for taking the time to consider the larger picture. It is a very lonely place to feel like you have no allies in the other parent or the court when you are only, truly, trying to give your child the best unbringing possible.
I couldn’t agree with you more!! The courts claim they want what’s in the child’s best interest. Yet, I have been on that end. I’ve forced my kids to go when they didn’t want to. Its the worst feeling in the world. I think the parenting plans and courts need to add additional provisions. If the child is truly upset they should NOT be forced to comply. In my opinion, that itself is a form of emotional abuse. The recent judge that threw 3 kids in juvenile detention BC of failure of visitation with the father is ludicrous! Some parents dont deserve the visitation if the child is constantly being dumped off on a neighbor while supposed to be visiting. My ex recently was going to allow my daughter to have a sleepover with the neighbors 13 yr old boy!! God works mysteriously, I ran into my child that night at the theater, the mother came and introduced herself, my child actually text from boys phone at 12 a.m., I immediately text father and demanded he go get her. Its inappropriate, and I’m not willing to take that risk.
“If the child is truly upset they should NOT be forced to comply. In my opinion, that itself is a form of emotional abuse.”
Sorry Melissa, but I have to call BS on the first part of your comment.
WRONG!! Encouragement helps! just because you hate that other parent now does not mean you allow your kids to decide the same sentencing! you encourage children to want to spend time with their dad. I didn’t for most of kids childhood…the day i started building up my x husband to our 3 kids…was the EXACT DAY THEY STARTED ENJOYING THEIR TIME WITH DAD. MOTHERS HAVE THE POWER OF ENCOURAGEMENT!
Wow – I could have not said it better myself.
COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and DEFINITELY not in the best interest of the child. For ONE parent to “dictate” even through ALLOWING a child to “determine” whether or not they “want” to go to see another parent is COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE. Children typically dont know what they want from minute to minute let alone with regard to visitation. Everyone has different parenting styles and many parents “allow” children to do whatever they want and approach parenting from an “Im your buddy” vantage point. Other parents are stricter. Of course they are going to want to hang out with their buddy than a parent who is REALLY WILLING TO PARENT. If there is abuse CERTAINLY children shouldnt be allowed to spend time with a parent who is abusive but FAR TOO MANY PARENTS are manipulating their children through alienation tactics to NOT CALL BS on a parent who is allowing a child to dictate their visitation.
Steven, I have to disagree with you. The sense of entitlement, i.e., rights, you apparently wish grant children of divorced parents is not normally available in a non-divorced household. I can be a parent and partner in a poor-performing, but functional marriage and household. I can be emotionally detached and a lousy dad and yet be married to a good mother, but that does not grant the child the right to say, “I’m not spending any time with daddy!” The child cannot be given the option to “opt-out” of a relationship with one or both parents, absent any bonafide abuse or other justifiable circumstance. Although not exactly the same kind of decision, you wouldn’t allow them to decide whether they should do their homework, chores or go to bed at an appropriate time on a school night? You have rules for a reason, right?
Children can be listened to but must obey in the end. Today’s kids are probably much more expressive in their desires than previous generations. They probably have more channels to be heard, too. The court should consider their testimony, or expert analysis about the child, as a supplement to adult testimony and evidence. It should NOT, however, allow them at any immature age, to dictate the rules of visitation. Without just cause, this inappropriately empowers children to dictate their relationships and future when they are not mature enough to consider the ramifications of their decisions.
In my decree and subsequent orders, there is a statement to the effect that, in the absence of mutual agreement of the parents, the rules apply. A child’s whim, or constant refusal, should not be the cause to make a modification. Both parents should seek to understand what is causing the problem before jumping to conclusions and allowing a unilateral by-pass of the orders.
YOU are the PARENT of a CHILD. A teenager may not be a “child” but is still considered an un-emancipated minor who is otherwise not allowed to make life-changing decisions. A mother telling a dad that their 13-year old daughter doesn’t want to go on visitation, for any reason short of abuse, over his objections, demonstrates a lack of respect to the child of the dad and the system. It empowers the child to inappropriately think of themselves as quasi-adults who hold veto over their own parents.
I have always been involved in my 12-year old daughter’s life. It’s only because her mother and I couldn’t get along that I was put in the situation where by default, I can spend only about 1/3 of the year with my child. Looking back, I can see subtle distancing in our relationship, no doubt manipulated so by a co-dependent mother who had twice the time to influence our child to the point we are at today. A year after the onset of puberty she now violently refuses to go with me, shocking me and the police called to intervene. I can only shake my head in disbelief and wonder what, What, WHAT did I do to deserve this? I told her I loved her every day. I hugged and tucked her in at night, usually at her request, until she turned 12. We played games and went places together. I made her her favorite foods, listened to music we liked, and talked to her about life. And then? She tells me to FO. Of course I am not perfect, I do yell, but I rarely laid a hand on her. (I was spanked a dozen times for every time I did the same to her; I knew from the onset of being a dad that I wouldn’t repeat that kind of parenting.) I live only a dozen miles from her mother, and have been married to my current wife for over 10 years. We are not so far away that she cannot contact or spend time with her friends, as long as we are informed. Her mother signs her up for activities on our time but we usually acquiesce in order to support our daughter’s interests. That said, I reserve the right to say no to something wants to do, or not do, because I am her father, her dad and her parent, and sometimes I have to say “No.” Is my saying “no,” and all the irrational, nonsensical, trivial, and unjustified statements, demands, accusations and allegations cause enough to evict me from her life? It’s sad to say, but it must be that her mother, using the standard time granted to her in Texas, has been able to gradually alienate our daughter against me. Right now, I don’t know when I will see her again, because apparently I can’t force the issue short of a contempt action, which is something that doesn’t phase her in the least, and it doesn’t address the underlying programming done by her mother. But to solve that problem, I will have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to try and convince a judge that her mother is the problem, should be held accountable for what she has done, temporarily removed from visitation and possession, and the child put into serious treatment to de-program her. Because I know, deep down inside, is the child I helped raise, who I know still loves me, but just can’t see or feel it anymore when her mom’s around.
What would you do if your kid refused to come home to you at night?
Greg,
It’s nice that you can make things sound so simple. My 15 year old son threatened to kill himself because of the treatment that he received at his father’s home. Even though it was documented that his father had struck him hard enough in the head to cause visual disturbances and dizziness no charges were filed by DSS. It also doesn’t matter that his father and step mother were consistantly demeaning him, calling him stupid, idiot, dumb…
Even Mobile Crisis documented suicidal ideation. But still nothing was done.
Now I face that wonderful contempt of court charge for not forcing a five foot nine inch male to go with to his father’s. I have never stopped him from going, even with the many concerns. I have encouraged my son to see his father, spend time with his father to no avail.
His father has used brut force on this young man his entire life. I don’t talk about his father, I don’t have to. This young man lived the abuse.
So, no I do not allow disrespect, he doesn’t run the roads, he does what he is told and will continue abide by the rules of a loving home.
But since you seemingly know how to force a child, that has threatened suicide and has told multiple people that he will run away because of his father, to go back to his father’s house, I look forward to your comments on how to do this with my son’s safety in mind.
File an action to terminate the father’s visitation.
I have s daughter who is 17 now and she wants nothing to do with her father! He has never really been there except when he wants and he has been just blowing her off because she was in a school sport and he refuses to take her to the meets so she did not go and 2 1/2 years passed and now he goes to court and says I am not letting him see her.. She has said she wanted to herself so I had to take her to the hospital and guess what dad never came or checked on her.. Now he takes me to court and if doesn’t go with her father my daughter and I can go to jail huh what? How does that make sense! She keeps saying she is gonna run away when she gets there then what she has a police record cause her dad is a crappy parent.. Great job friend of the court!!!!!
Kristie, first off may I say that I understand what you are saying. Custody and visitation issues are never easy as there is not only the battle of wills between child/parents but also parent to parent. As a child enters into the adolescent years they tend to fight the wills and best interest of the parents but in a broken home they feel as if they are fighting (2) parents rather than two likeminded parents even if they are both saying the same thing.
Here is my suggestion for you and you have nothing to loose trying. If I were in your shoes I, being the adult, would reach out to the other parent and do some damage control for your daughter’s behalf. What would help is to explain the concerns and background of what is going on. You cannot make him to get together with his daughter yet you can ask both your daughter and her father to start a visitation schedule they decide rather than you or the courts. It removes you from the liability and teaches her to confront uncomfortable issues. On the hand of your ex it allows him the foundation of being a parent as you are a third party to their relationship.
If the relationship doesn’t work out as a result of his inaction that is on him, not you and your child will see it and deal with it as she needs to.
Children need both parents in their lives but their will and attitude of having all of the answers as a teenager is almost laughable, but in a broken home it validates, in their mind, that their thinking is even more correct but in fact is less on target. Children are always seeking stability and in a broken home their foundation is shattered. Until you both understand her brokenness in full and correctly, you will never be able to correct this problem until they are mature enough to do this on their own. The two of you will need to be in like mind as parents in order for her healing to happen and the madness to subside. Understand I am not saying like minded as a married couple yet in some ways that is hard to separate. Remember you both brought her in this world and as a result you both are needed for her success even if it is in a different way.
Dear Cal, thanks that’s awesome advice.. I will try that even though I have tired a dozen times but I will always keep trying for my daughter.. She does need to learn to face things for sure.. Thanks very again.. It really touched my heart. My daughter is my main concern.
Greg,
So what I’m gathering from this post is there is no such thing as self help in the family court arena. If there is a visitation order, it must be followed to the letter. Thus, a modification must be sought or go to jail? My friend was approached last week by the non-custodial parent, berated, and slapped in the face through the window opening while she was sitting in her car. The child was in the back seat and witnessed the battery. Visitation weekend is coming next weekend, and the child (twelve years old) is petrified after seeing the violence against his mother. The mother filed charges, a warrant was issued for CDV, and the non-custodial parent will be prosecuted. But as a matter of recourse, he will likely bring a contempt action when the mother allows her son to opt not to visit. Meanwhile, an action to modify will take a year or more. What a choice for this mother to have to make. There should be an interim DSS administrative ruling until the modification can be heard. Is there anything like that in SC?
Any reason the mother couldn’t file an action to terminate visitation and seek an ex-parte order or expedited hearing?
The point of this blog was that the court, not the custodial parent, needs to determine whether to stop visitation.
This guy is a moron! Forcing visits is not the same thing as making a kid eat veggies! I will never force my child into visits! If a kid doesnt want to be around a certain person there is a reason! Why would anyone emotionally traumatize their kid and claim its for the childs own good?! I mean a kid would technicaly be safer living in a bubble and shut off from the outside world but I won’t force my kid into that either! This guy fucking pissed me off.
Sybil, let me ask you (seeing you have never experienced having your kids taken away from you), do you understand the concept of Parental Alienation or is it that you have alienated another parent from their kids? Just a little confused by your banter. And his description is not very far off base. You are right it is not the same as making a child eat their vegetables…..IT IS WORSE!
My child’s father is A PEDOPHILE! HE CONFESSED IN OPEN COURT! The judge gave him unsupervised visits anyway (clearly she has no kids and daddy issues) Yes I teach my child to fear and watch out for him as any Good parent would. I feel sorry for your kids if you agree he has a right to molest my daughter.
I am margies sister. My daughter is her niece and I have the bastard on video admitting what he is. I caught him in the act of masturbating to photos of children and the legal system failed my daughter bc the picture were of partially clothed children not technically child porn so he was not arrested. The law is not black and white and bc of these father’s rights advocates the law is working against some children. Not all people deserve to be parents.
It is very disturbing that judges work in a reckless and self serving way. I have seen this time and again that judges play the political game for their own reputation rather than the best interest of a child. This would be a red flag that a judge should jump at. The problem, which I am sure the reason he did nothing, was simply because there was no criminal investigation done. If there was a criminal conviction he would have, at best, gotten supervised visitation. Did you take this info to the state’s attorney to investigate? It would not be a bad idea to do and let them see if they have enough evidence to prosecute then go back for a modification.
It is real..my husband and I deal with it now..we know we ate not aweful ppl. We live her yet she creates things like dadfy wishes I was never born, never wanted me.I ask her he said that to you..she said I just know.. His other daughter told us mommy tol
Sybil-there are some reasons that kids don’t want to go the non-custodial parents house:
1. they don’t get to play minecraft all day because they are FORCED to interact with their non-custodial parent.
2. They are told “no” a lot-especially when the children fight with each other.
3. Their custodial parent is able to provide them with a constant and thrilling entertainment schedule which the non-custodial parent can never duplicate.
4. The children don’t get to take any of their precious belongings with them to the non-custodial parents house, because the custodial parent doesn’t allow it, and the non-custodial parent can’t afford duplicates of said items. (ipods, game boys, books, special blanket).
I wouldn’t want to go to the other parent’s house either, sounds soooooo Boring.
This is exactly what my fiancée is dealing with. His teenage son refuses to go to his house and his mother allows it. Of course he doesn’t want to go…she works nights as a nurse and is never home. He gets to stay on his X-box all hours of the night and have no rules. He’s getting all Ds & Fs in school. His father, who is a damn incredible father (both of his daughters prefer to live with him), has rules. He has to do homework at his dad’s house, he also has to eat dinner with the rest of the family, and turn the video games off by 9:00pm. He is nowhere near abused…quite the contrary. He is spoiled and the only time he wants to come over is when there’s gifts & money involved…he was more than happy to come over Christmas Day! It infuriates me that his mother doesn’t make him go to his dad’s and doesn’t honor their parenting plan, and doesn’t respect their father. He would like to have the court force them to honor their visitation, however the process takes so long that by the time it goes through, his son will have graduated high school (hopefully, if his grades come up) and will be emancipated. It kills me to see my fiancée so hurt when doesn’t get to see his only son who he loves dearly.
Maybe your fiancee, should have thought about what happens to a father/son relationship, especially at the teen years, and if you think that gifts are what he wants, it’s not, of course he’s going to take them, but what he really wants is one on one time with his father, you need to step back and let that happen, hard as that may be for you, I have a teen son, his father left for another women, 2 years I forced him to go, as soon as he was told about the new women, he stopped going, and I stopped forcing, he hasn’t seen his father in 5 years, and he’s a well adjusted , outgoing, active 16 year old. Try to understand how he feels, be gentle.
Lol…you have no idea what you’re talking about. Sadly, his son could care less about family which is encouraged by his mother. His mom was like that when my fiancee and her were married. In the 17 years they were married, she went to very few family functions because she “doesn’t like family stuff”. His family is wonderful and loving but she comes from a very dysfunctional family and has no concept of what traditions and family time are all about. And no matter how hard my fiancee tries, his son won’t budge and his ex supports him. I love the kid and get along wonderfully with all three of them, but he absolutely is spoiled. And he’s got that “I’m 18 and I’m an adult” attitude and thinks he’s now above household rules. He wants to stay at his mom’s where he has no rules, no bedtime, no chores, no homework enforcement, etc. The only time he comes over is when he needs something material. His actions have nothing to do with me. I work an opposite schedule as my fiancee so the kids get plenty of alone time with their father without me, something I’ve always encouraged. Yes, we do things as a family but it’s important to me for him to have time alone with his kids. It’s garbage that you’d jump to blame me and tell me to “step back” and imply that it’s “hard for me”. For the record, I met my fiance 2 years after his divorce. His son’s actions started before we met, when he turned 18 and became an “adult”. I’m no where near the other woman as in your situation. Quite the contrary. His ex-wife was a serial cheater who ended up pregnant with another man’s child while they were married. I’m sorry about your situation, but not all of us step-parents are evil homewreckers who are trying to come between our loves and their kids. I’m a good person who’d give anything for my family. Their happiness means the world to me, including my step-son’s, no matter how bratty he is being at the moment. I’d love nothing more than for him and his father to have a great relationship. My husband died of leukemia and I was widowed young. Him and his father had a very strained relationship which was mended when he was dying but his dad missed out on so much of his adult life and both of them had so many regrets. I’d hate to have my fiancee and his son go through something like that.
Debbie, I should also add that my fiancee and I don’t even officially live together yet. He “lives” with me when the kids are at their mom’s but has his children at his own home when they’re with him. They’ve never spent the night at my house and I don’t sleep over there; they are not forced to share their time/home with me…yet. A counselor-friend advised us against cohabitation for the kids’ sake and we’re taking her advice. Like I said, my guy is a great dad…it was important to him to set a good example for them and we will not be combining households until we are married which will be in the summer. And we planned it that way so there is no disruption caused by the wedding and move during the school year. We are doing everything in our power to be good parents and good role models and put the kids’ needs and feelings first. The issue is not with him/us…the issue is with his ex not not encouraging a positive relationship between her son and his father and not enforcing/following the parenting plan that she agreed to which is in the best interest of the kids. She’d rather be a selfish and bitter ex-wife and alienate her son from his dad to spite him.
I agree sybil. My son when he entered high school did not like my my wife (his step mother) and chose to not visit. Did not want contact, etc. I left him alone. Call after a little while to make sure he didn’t want contact. After 3 years (senior in HS) he came around do to issues with his mother. We have a great relationship after the brief departure. With his brothers, there have been similar stents without contact 6 month etc. Again if anything it strengthened our relationships instead of forcing something on them. 16+ children need to learn the repercussions of their decisions, right or wrong. And yes forcing to eat veggies is a cop out on why lawyers get paid and argue useless points. Our oldest refuses to go to his moms, we have talked to him and she has agreed that “when he is ready, she is waiting” but yet I get constant banter about being in contempt when she has agreed to wait. Flip flop flip flop
Dear Greg,
My noeces Dad is an admitted pedophile. … what I mean is my sister made a recording of him admitting he masterbates to photos of children in bathing suits & played it for the Judge. The Judge ordered an advocate for my niece (who kust waste $ & time). She spent weeks talking to a forensic psychological doctor & said the Dad would have to do a $20,000 psych evaluation. When they went to court the jidge handed her a list & said pick one of tjese doctors to do the evaluation. Joe (my nieces Dad) lied to either the judges in vourt or his psych dr. But it was never questioned ny the judge. He had supervised visits in the beginning, but now he gets her EVERY Saturday & EVERY Sunday for 3 hrs each day….. no one in the court system is protecting or trying to protect my niece.
FUCK his parental tights, my nieces safty & rights SHOULD out rank him, but because of lawyers & judges like you they don’t. She’s forced to visit a pedophile until he assults her or another child…… I guess an admition on video & to a judge don’t mean anything until its too late. So FUCK YOU, HIM & THE SO CALLED JUSTICE SYSTEM!
Margie, was your ex convicted of sexual misconduct or as a pedophile? Unless he was there is no need to make such an accusation. If he was convicted I understand why you are venting and have every right to do so.
Now with what Greg was stating most women are not in that case and are disgruntled jealous selfish women out either for themselves or out to destroy the lives of their former husband. When I asked my ex-wife (seeing that I have been looking for visitation to be enforced and she refused looking for a judge to give her what she wanted) what she was wanting she told me that her goal was to destroy me. She has said that more than 3 separate times and has trashed my name in so many venues. Upon asking a few simple questions of my kids (before all communication has been cut off) as well as doing a little digging I found my ex aligned herself with a homeless shelter in order to get them to build her a new home. If they want to be suckers on that that is their issue but what bothers me is the caviot they gave her to get the home and the scare tactic she used with the children only to find out that the last judge and GAL are connected with this said organization and paid for her legal defense. She was told that they wanted her to claim domestic violence and be their spokesperson to raise money in lieu of getting a brand new home. What she told my kids was unless you accuse your dad of abusing you we will loose this home and live on the street and it will be all your fault. Do you want to be homeless?
She used this as the excuse to refuse ordered visitation then manipulated the judge to revoke my visitation under the pretense of defamation and character assignation.
This is what Greg was talking about. I feel that no parent should have their parental rights revoked. There are some who should have restricted visitation, especially because of sexual of physical abuse, but the courts need to have a plan to restore the relationship and if that parent doesn’t comply then they cannot increase time with their child.
As for your situation I am sorry you went through this.
TO all the mothers out there who have best intentions for your child: Try to listen. Many fathers have pissed off ex wives who, for very selfish reasons, make certain that their children fell weird about visiting their fathers. With enough time, and emotional backing from mom, this turns into children who don’t “feel comfortable” with their fathers, or “can’t be themselves” at dad’s house. I was once a 15 year old girl who didn’t feel especially comfortable at my dad’s house. I had no relationship with my father for nearly 15 years because of the distance my mother allowed me to create. I wish BOTH of my parents had fought harder to keep a secure relationship with my dad. Please stop allowing your children to cop out of important relationships because “they don’t wanna”. Grow up and be the adult!
To Jen. My husband is currently going through everything you said with his almost 15 year old and crazy ex. He want’s nothing more than to have a relationship with his daughter but his ex has been driving her away from him for years. It is so frustrating! He doesn’t think she is ever coming back or will ever come back around. Sad. I wish I knew what to do or say for him.
My husband is dealing with the same thing. His ex has a pattern of alienating herself from those who piss her off. Her mother, her father, her brother (whos dying of cancer!) and this is what she has taught her son to be acceptable. He lives within walking distance of us. The kid has got a job now, so he can buy his own games and system- all of a sudden dad aint so important. Neither she nor his son will respond to texts, calls, or messages sent through the xbox. This has happened before. Lasted 2 months. The 16 year old came back as soon as his dad offered to take him to a Sox game. Really?? And to keep the peace, my husband spoke to him about empathy, and the importance of keeping communication open. Fast forward 8 months, the kid and his mom are at it again. If my husband visits.the house it will get ugly. She blames the kud. The kid blames her. Its so twisted! And he mentioned to his dad a couple of years ago about him wanting to remain the only child. We dont have kids yet. So, darling, let me get this straight, you want him to be your dad and your dad alone? Then you strip him of all the joys being a father can bring? Pff! I can understand if the father was abusive, but he is not. I am respectful toward his son, and even play board games as a family. She claims the kid doesnt want to go. Ok. I believe it, but who’s the adult? Who’s calling the shots? The court visitations mean nothing, but I guarantee that if ONE check would be missing for child support THAT’S when the court intervene.
Greg,
I’m having the same problem with my 8 year old son. My son informed me a month ago that his father has been smoking pot around him, and heavily drinking around him. I’ve been informed that his father has even allowed him to drink. I’ve contacted Jobs and Family Services and they have investigated. Nothing has been done however, with the exception that they referred my ex husband to counseling. My son is scared to visit his father. He’s afraid his father will hurt him or continue using drugs around him. According to you I should make my son go with his father?!? How can I willing send my son to a place where his safety is at stake? I know you say it’s easy to just file a motion to terminate visitation, but how is one supposed to do that if they are low income and cannot afford a lawyer? From Ohio.
your examples of how a custodial parent would not allow a child to drink alcohol or do their chores is ridiculous and gives no credence to the children having an issue with the non-custodial parent. guess what kids don’t want to go to the dr, but understand getting sick or having cavities and therefore go to a dentist.
here is the analogy for all those that may not understand this situation. recently my daughter’s college room mate got hit bar a car running across the street during a college day drink. I am sure her parents told her plenty of times as did her friends not to run across a street without looking. guess what, a kid won’t even see the consequence until it happens or they have kids and worry about their kids.
ugggh. the complete generalization people make about what they would do.
Dave-
What would you do if your kid had an issue with you and refused to come home at night?
Comparing a visitation with going to the doctor is absurd. Kids are afraid of the doctor bc they associate doctors with pain. Obviously if the child is behaving the same way when it comes to visiting a parent they associate that parent with some kind of pain. A good parent wouldn’t emotionally, physically or mentally abuse their child. And forcing a visit is emotional abuse. Why would you teach your child that it is OK for an adult to force them into doing something they didn’t want to do. That’s why kids don’t tell in abusive situations.
Dear Greg,
My grandsons bio father never had anything to do with him for the first 10 years of his life. Including not paying any support. Last yr he took my daughter to court to get court ordered visitation because he had a new girlfriend and she found out he had 3 sons, but was only an active father to 2. My daughter has a fiance and little girl with him and for the past 7 years he has been the only father that my grandson has known.
The courts granted his bio father the routine visitations even though he didn’t even know my grandson and increased his child support due to arrearage. The bio father was not given permission to attempt to change his religious preference which is Christian, father is Mormon. My grandson enjoyed getting to know his older half brother but his father would constantly threaten him about church, punish him when he did nothing wrong and allow his younger half brother to damage his belongings and even made him give his only xmas gift from his bio father back and it was given to his younger half brother.
The visitations stopped when he broke up with his gf, they only lasted 3 months after he got visition. She told us about the treatment at his father’s house which she didn’t agree with . My grandson can’t stand his father and never wants to go back. Last month after no contact for 5 months he texted my daughter and told her that he tried to have a relationship with his son, but essentially tried to blame her for his irresponsibility and poor parenting and stated that since my grandson and he don’t get along and he does not want to be in his life that she should not force him to pay child support so he wants her to voluntarily tell the courts to relieve him of the responsibility. My daughter told him she would only sign off on child support if he would modify the visitation to none since he hasn’t seen or talked to my grandson in almost 6 mo.
I’m not sure if the judges will allow her to do this but she in no way has she ever alienated his bio father and at first tried to help him relate to his Son but he just doesn’t care and never did. On his last visit he even told my grandson that he knows he is a lousy father and has his phone alarm set to remind him to call and ignores it rather than calling him. He refuses to pay support at this time and is pressuring her to sign off on it. My daughter’s fiance even wants to adopt him but I fear the judges will take action against her for trying to take away his rights even though he doesn’t want them now.
The “Best Interest of the child” needs to be looked at more thoroughly when allowing deadbeats access to these kids because my grandson was doing well before his bio father decided on a crash course of his own alienation. My grandson constantly worries about his bio father now and begs us to do something about it.
Sir,
I read your article with interest. My husband and I have encountered a situation with my 15-year old stepdaughter. My stepdaughter splits her time 50/50 between her mother and father; every other week. They have been divorced 10 years. My step daughter is a great kid. Compliant, funny, respectful and creative. She began telling us she was not happy about two years ago. She felt her mother pressured her to perform in a way that she could not live up to and when she fell short she would get sent messages that she was a failure. She also began telling us that her mother was not present for her. We assumed these were the griping of a young adolescent. We offered an ear and redirected her back to her mother all the while encouraging her to be respectful and honest. The kid was increasingly unhappy and began to express wanting to be with her father more than her mother. Well, we again just listened and offered support and redirection. Once in a while she would ask to extend her time with us due to a family outing etc. This was not a problem with the mother usually. Let me say that My husband and his ex do not get a long at all. It is not openly hostile rather she refuses to have any contact at all even when he wants to discuss behaviors, grades, medical…you name it. About six months ago the kid became very distress and began revealing things that were concerning. She is not being beaten, starved or denied resources . She is emotionally being neglected and we believe abused. I began talking to her about therapy and this is when I found out her mother had told her if she went to therapy and told her that if she disclosed certain things she would be taken away. I spent a long while working on that belief until she agreed to see a therapist. Then the kiddo decided she wanted to go to the high school in our district. We live in a small town but Mom or step dad would have to drive her in the morning every other week and pick her up at our house when they got off of work. We were supportive of this choice and met with mom to discuss this. It is about 7 miles one way. All heck broke loose. Mom was very angry and became hostile. The kiddo came over and was in tears saying ‘I can’t take it anymore” and reported she spent three hours being raged and told she should have never spoken to her Dad etc. Dad called to see if he could determine what the issue was but mom swore at him and hung up on him. We didn’t know what to do other than support her. She then told us that she wanted to live with Dad full time and have visits with her mom. We could hear her but thought this may pass. We helped her settle down and helped her with skills to use with Mom such as active listening. She went home and called us the following Tuesday. We took her to dinner and she sat and just cried. She told us that her mother and step father had spent days either browbeating her or emotionally shunning her about her school choice. We asked her if she could make it to Friday and she assured us she could. She came back that Friday and slept for 18 hours straight. IN the meantime we have consulted an attorney and made the decision to ask for an amended parenting plan. My husband called mom and asked her if she would agree to this over the summer. She was very hostile, swore at him and refused to speak to him about it. We then made the decision without her agreement. Then two weeks ago the Kiddo refused to go home to her mother. We told her that she must but she then said she would not get into the car with Mom. Mom was angry but what were we supposed to do, pick her up and force her into the car. Now, what is remarkable about this is how compliant this kid normally is. This is very out of character for her so we got her an emergency session with her counselor. I believe she is to young to make the decision to terminate a parental relationship but she may need more distance. Any thoughts would be helpful because we really do want to support the kiddo but we also think her relationship with her mom is important.
My case is a little different.
I disagree a little with you Greg. I know some parents alienate their kids against their father and use the excuse of not wanting to see their dad. In my case. ..i flee from home bc of DV when my kids were 14,12 and 11 . I lived a whole year with them in a safe house. When i get the chance to placed an injunction infront of a judge I felt sorry for that man so i didnt proceed. I’ll pay for that mistake my whole life. Anyway..to make the story short. I always called their dad every other weekend so my kids gets to see their dad. I always brought them over my kids grandparents as a middle ground. My now 20 year old stopped wanting to see his dad when he was 16. I always placed his shoes and clothes at the front door and told him i was going to wait for him in the car as i got ready to drop off my other younger kids. I repeated doing that for a year but continue to encourage him to see his dad even now he is 20. I took him to counceling and his counselor told me to leave him alone. He will do it when he is ready. So i butt out. My daughter who is now 16 stopped see her dad when she was 13-14… I did the same thing with her but i was a bit more firmed with her nc of her age until she dropped them bomb that she didnt like the way he looks at her (as a woman) so I butt out and waited for him to call me to reinforced his visitation rights. He never called. And my now 18 year old stopped see him when he was 16…his father failed 3 times to take him to the hospital when he got sick at his place with bronchitis, pneumonia and a third degree burned. Because of those bronchial infections he developed POTS syndrome. He is now disabled. And my daughter has been recently find disabled thru a disability hearing due to seizures, migraines, PTSD, and GAD I was trying to change the parenting plan but i was always struggling to pay a lawyer. Legal aid was out of the question bc im one of those cases that they cant help bc the case is in another county from where i live. After almost 5 years i finally hired an attorney and she is helping me to have complete custody over my kid. (16) My 2 youngest are still in counceling and myself. I want the best for them…i never have refused their father to see them and i dont think i ever will. If he ever calls ill make sure my kids know but after all we been thru its going to be up to them to see their father. I butted out.
How about a non custodial parent who just was awarded visitation and on the very first weekend instead of staying home with the 14 year old goes to a bar with her boyfriend?
Really? You must be a jealous step parent since that’s all you have to say. There 2 sides to a story buddy/ma’am
Definitely not. No jealously what so ever. Non custodial parent does not care about her children only cares about self and money. Very obvious. Get a name really and a life.
Let’s talk about consistency: Non custodial mother who boo hooed about her visitation in court proved herself again to only be interesed in money. Already changing or declining weekly visit to be with boyfriend. The soon to be teenagers are not stupid. Their mother chooses boyfriend over them.
It is her right to do so, just as it is yours.
Greg,
I bet you thought a simple word of advice would be nice to post…
In many ways I agree that a child should not have the right to CHOOSE to visit the non custodial parent. However, I believe a refusal is clearly a consideration. I have been divorced from the children’s mother for nearly 4 years. There has been nearly 4 years worth of eminent court hearings, with only going to court twice.
There are 2 children (11 yo girl and 14 yo boy). Mom’s visits are every other weekend. Mom has been verbally abusive and neglectful. Even recently leaving the 11 yo alone overnights while working. Previous children’s division investigations have been horrible (ineffective). The kids both confirmed that she screams at them, threatens to call the police if they don’t clean their room (yeah they share one room while at her house). Has been blatantly more aggressive toward the 14 yo even hitting him in the head (ruled unsubstantiated by children’s division even though he had a huge knot on the side of his head) but similar to the 11 yo as she gets older. She records them all the time, threatens to take them to juvenile if they argue at all (mostly the 14 yo) and a plethora of other examples.
At any rate, the 14 yo has refused to visit for about 6 weeks. He stated he can’t handle it anymore. He was getting horrible stomach aches before visits, and I found out that he was routinely being left as the overnight babysitter while mom works. (Note: mom is an overnight private contractor (caregiver) which can make her own schedule). 14 yo said, that he will not go again. I told him that he had to and that if he doesn’t he may be required to live there by the court until he is 17 or 18. He said he would just run away then too.
I always have both children at the exchange location and tell both kids to go with their mother. Last exchange, she had a video recorder and refused to talk to 14 yo when he went up to her car. Then she drove past my car and pointed the camera at my wife and I. 11 yo always goes and is more of a buddy with mom as she allows her to wear tons of make-up and any type of clothing she wants. Although her moods are up and down with her mother. She has had outbursts and says she wants to live with mom because she doesn’t like the rules. But when at mom’s says the same to her about staying with me. 14 yo is well adjusted, does well in school and otherwise has a great relationship with everyone. I have encouraged mom to go on afternoon outings or have shorter visits to help rebuild their relationship, but she blames me for his refusal or says that I am denying her the visit.
Mom says its ok for 14 yo to not visit, but then sends me messages saying that I am refusing to let 14 yo go. Then she threatens taking me to court. I already spent tens of thousands of dollars and the kids are with me 90% of the time, but there is constantly a problem from the mom. The last modification took almost 2 years and wasn’t even close to a court date. So, I gave in and we made an agreement that was approved by the judge. At this point, I feel it’s the best I can get for the kids, but there is a constant threat out there. She even calls the police to have “well” checks done on them a couple times per month, stating she hasn’t heard from her kids (I show the cops the phone records that they have recently spoken, they look around and obviously see a normal well kept home as well as very safe kids and they leave). How can a kid have any friends when the neighbors see a cop car in front of the house twice per month. It is destroying any normalcy for the kids. I am out of money to keep an attorney while providing for the kids (note: she pays no support as it was part of the agreement).
Most people on these simply say, “take the other person back to court.” I don’t know about anyone else, but there has to be help out there for all of us that are doing the right thing for our kids. I don’t think a court is going to completely allow a kid to no see their parent unless it is physically abusive or they are doing drugs or whatever. So, now I guess I just wait to be taken to court.
Yeah, I know it is discombobulated mess of a message, but I needed to let someone know.
We feel your pain. We is a custodial father and a step mother. My step son lived with us for 14 months and his mother would only pick him up around the holidays and did not enforce her visitation until she had to pay child support and then all of the sudden the father is denying visitation. After 14 months the well adjusted teenage boy now 14, making great grades, mannerly, good friends, ect. was told by a judge he had to visit with his mother. May I say, white trash now. The very first weekend with him she leaves him at home with his 19 year old drug selling brother and heads to the local bar with her biker boyfriend. Who wins here? NO ONE! The white trash mother gets her overnight credits to avoid child support, but the teenage boy is very depressed. The judge told her to work on her relationship with her child two weeks right before that. There is no way in heck that this step mother who was mom for 14 months will let this teenage boy miss a step in anything……….I got his back and he will have happiness.
I agree with you on every level Greg. My story is different from most…..I was with my ex husband for 20 years in my opinion he was verbally/mentally abusive but in his mind he was not. So difference of opinion there…..I decided to leave him in February of 2014 at the time my children were 13 and 15. They begged me to let them live with their father because they didn’t want to leave their friends or school. They have been in the same school since kindergarten and now are presently a junior and a freshman. I didn’t see the harm in this considering we have both always wanted what was best for the kids. Shortly after leaving I met a wonderful man we Baca me good friends it lead to more and I am currently engaged to him!! Prior to living with my current fiancé I had my kids every other weekend like clockwork and we agreed on holidays. Once I moved in with my current fiancé my ex husband decided to let the kids pick and choose when they wanted to visit. He decides which holidays I get (last year I missed fourth of july, labor day, Christmas eve, Christmas day, new years eve, and new years day). He will follow the rules when they are in his favor. Recently my son got a job and a girlfriend. Now he is refusing to visit because of his social life. His father let’s him make whatever plans he wants and tells him he doesn’t have to visit if he don’t want to. It isn’t an issue of him not liking my fiancé because he calls him dad every once in a while and goes to him for advice. Whenever I try to get my ex husband to see that he is violating my rights he tells me take me to court we will see who comes out on top. I’m at my wits end I can’t take it anymore is t g ere anything I can do??
Greg-
Excellent article. I would like to work with you on matters of PA. I am an alienated father who has been kept from my 4 children starting almost 6 years ago taking my kids 1200 miles away and shopping 4 different judges in 2 different states to find someone to revoke all of my parental rights. Let me know if I could be of assistance.
CAL
My situation goes back along way. the man who has custody of my son told the courts he was the father when he is in fact no blood at all i was there but under such heavy medication at the time i do not remember anything he took advantage of my situation knowing i could no care for him at the time but i do have visitation and he moved as soon as the order come down i did not see my son for two years he was told i had died. Now he is 12 coming up in 7 days and so called father doesn’t even let him speak to me it shouldnt be my sons decision as it always has been. what can i do i live off of ssi i can not afford a lawyer but can not afford to lose my son for good again. Please helpme
I only want my visitation his father hates me and in turn if my son shows any affection he gets yelled at so is forced to agree he stole my son when he was 18 mths old i did not see him til he was 4 and half then i married his father to be around so i could raise my son and couldn’t take the verbal abuse any more i had to leave my son behind he hates me or does he i will never know unless i get help
Hi Greg,
I am a father who just won custody of my 13 year old son. Mom has never refused me of seeing my son, but as my son has gotten older, he started having problems with her boyfriend. To make a long story short, the problems escalated to the point where my son has had to call the police on his mom (several times) and have started showing disrespect towards her and her boyfriend. His mom lashes out at me and would threaten to drop him off at my house to live. So as time went on I decided to take her to court to gain custody of my son. My problem is that, since I have gained custody, she has not tried to contact our son not once and it has been a month now. My son finally called her and he asked when she planned to get him and she told him within two weeks from that day. Well she didn’t show up. My question: Is there anything that can be done to make this woman be a responsible mother to her son? The judge required her to pay child support and she was granted shared parenting as long as she moved to the vicinity of where we live. She has yet to do that as well. What can be done when she neglects to exercise her visitation that has been pointed out in our divorce decree?
Greg,
Just received a notice from a lawyer’s office representing the mother or my kids for which she has primary custodial privileges. For the last (10 years) I’ve had the standard visitation rights one week Thursday to Friday, following week Thursday to Sunday. The kids are 13/17 years of age and with plans here and there, so we have been flexible to allow them to stay for the most part with the mother due to sports and now one acquiring a job. We did have a discussion for which one of the children requested consistency to stay primary with the mother. No abuse issue what so ever, nothing denied at all, I have been an active father and provider, and I do not want to change the visitation arrangement because it will affect me and my family in more ways than one. I love my children, and I feel their being influenced by the mothers partner. What can you recommend and do I stand a chance to keep things as is. Thank you in advance for your time.
So here’s my question. My husband has full custody of my step daughter. She is 12. Last summer her mother tackled her to take away her phone while she was drunk. A week later her mother was charged with domestic violence for repeatedly hitting her boyfriend while she was drunk. My step daughter recently went to her mothers house for a week. We recieved a call from the police in the middle of the night because my step daughter was so afraid of her mother that she ran to the neighbors house while her mother was drunk. The next day her mother took her to the carnival where she drank an entire bottle of straight vodka before putting her in the car and driving her 30 minutes back to grandma’s house. She is scared and has begged us not to make her go back. What are our options? What are we to do if we force her to go back and something worse happens? My husband is working on filing a motion but there’s no way he will get a court date before her mother’s next weekend visit.
I requested a custody evaluation and my ex was found to have engaged in alienation and interference with my visitation. I was falsely accused of all sorts of things, all ultimately found to be utter bunk. My son refuses to speak to me, and probably never will. My daughter and I enjoy our time, but my now ex still subtly engages in what I deem to be alienating behavior.
I really have no recourse … apparently the court thinks my kids being raised by someone less mature than they are is fine. And she can cancel my dinners and phone calls for whatever reason – they forgot, they were shopping, out to eat, etc. and no one cares. But I darn well better have the check in on time.
In the end, that is all the “system” REALLY cares about IMO – the money.
You are 100% correct Victor. Visitation means nothing and when you push to withdraw support until visitation is honored the courts say child support has nothing to do with visitation yet if you go for a modification of child support, in many states, the child support is based off the amount of time you have or don’t have with the child. You can’t have it both ways.
In the end matters with the child have far more to do with the money and less to do with a child’s well being. What state are you in? 12 states to date have Parental Interference laws yet the punishment varies from state to state and trying to get a judge to comply is equal to becoming a millionaire by digging for gold.
Hi dear people, people suffering as I am.
I am struggling with a 14 years old daughter refusing to see her father. Main reason – he is not flexible with her when she wants a change in days or just needs a rest of moving between houses, constantly arguing with her or in two words she doesn’t feel good when he forces her to go due to a court order. last weekend she ran away and came back to me 3 times and every time I brought her back. Still I was held in contempt of court and tomorrow is the hearing.
I am very shocked by two facts: First – the inability of parents especially non-custodial to understand that relationships are not build through court orders but through love, compassion and empathy. I cant even imagine to be in situation to have to tell my kid to be with m because it is court ordered. I would never want my child’s life to be managed by orders. The biggest weapon of a parent to win the kids heart is their love and understanding.
The issue is that the non-custodial parent should be looking for a way to the kids heart and this way is never through forcing but rather through understanding. What if you force a child and one day when it turns 18 never wants to be with you and holds only negative memories.
Second- the current practices have nothing to do with the best interest of the child. The best interest of the child is to feel good, to be understood and not to have to be forced all the time. The best interest is for kids to focus on school and forming their friendship. The parent should find a spot in the kids heart. And parents should give the kids the freedom and understanding that no matter if we like the other parent the kids are part of both of us and hostile comments should never be made against the other parent.
In Europe – the custody disputes are solved quickly. The court looks who is the main caregiver and this is it. If both parents were equally involved there will be 50/50% division, if not the parent who was mainly involved. The short procedure prevents parents to reach such a stage of conflict as we do here because of the lengthy battles in court. If two parents don’t cooperate how would the child feel and by cooperation I mean be friendly with each other, consult with each other.
I don’t know what else to say but there is something very wrong but to all of you non-custodial or custodial parents I have to say – Think of your children. Give them the freedom to chose and show some sort of respect to the other parent. make children be with you because they want it not because they are forced to. Think about the memories you are creating for them. And they will come back to you. 2 hours of quality time with your kid is much more than a long weekend where the kid hates you and hates to be with you.
In my case, when it is my turn to visit my children who are 10 and 11, their Dad packs their schedules full with super fun things with their friends from school or neighbors. Of course the kids don’t want to miss out on these fun things. I live 2 hours away. Then I am made to be the bad guy because they have to miss these fun things. However, it is all a situation created by the father. He creates the turmoil intentionally. It all seems narcissitic to be for him to behave this way and his behavior is never ending. Thank you for writing the blog. I believe I am your intended audience.
More terrible advice from a bad lawyer, as well as probably a less than desirable parent. The formula is pretty simple- spend quality time, care and respect to your child and they will Want to spend time with you. Hopefully your license gets revoked before you damage more lives.
John, sometimes you can do all that and it won’t be enough to counteract the slow-drip poison of a co-dependent mother who gradually alienates your child against you. Clearly, you have NO experience in this situation. Mr. Forman’s observations are far more accurate than anything in your comment.
I have read these comments and they are all insane. The lawyer is completely correct. It doesnt matter that the child doesnt want to go and unless there is physical danger or harmful danger they need to be as equally with both parents as possible. The court even requires children to visit jailed felons for the child own good because they are the parent. You all need to read and understand the damage caused by not spending lots of quality time with both parents. For example a daughter not seeing a father destroys her self esteem and self worth at an alarmingly haigh rate. I hear alienation in most messages on this board. I beleve as they now do in Brazil that it should be considerd a crimal offense. It is clearly child abuse without any doubt.
Wow, some of the posters on his site seem quite enraged for one reason or another. I’m currently going through this with my ex and my 13 yo daughter. I have to say I agree with the lawyer. My ex has riddiculed me, broken my nose, and left me literally on the side of the road all in front of my daughter. Just recently I was served with a restraining order, all because my ex can’t seem to stay in one place for more than a few months. I brought up to her that maybe my daughter should come stay with me until she can get in a stable household. This sperned resentment and a good cussing. A few days after that I was served with papers stating I beat my daughter while screming her mothers a whore, and other quite ridiculous accusations. So I got a pretty good lawyer and tomorrow we go before a judge. My daughter is supposedly scared to come over, and my ex wants me to just disappear and forget about my baby. That’s not going to happen. Her mother is more interested in being the cool friend mom and not the moral guide she should be. Mr. Forman is right, maybe not about every case because they all differ in some way or another, but in my instance he’s spot on. A few months back my daughter was sick complaining of a sore throat. I contacted m ex and she demanded she be the one to take her to the doctor. I figured ok doesn’t matter as long as she gets seen by a doctor. I met my ex infront of the doctors office to drop my daughter off, asking her to let me know what the doctor says. While i was pulling out i got no more than a 1/4 mile away when I see her vehicle leaving the doctor. I call her no response so I message her asking what’s going on. I was informed that my daughter said her throat wasn’t sore anymore and she didn’t want to see the doctor. So I asked what no better safe than sorry measure, when I recieved a cussing stating she knew better and if she actually gets sick she would worry about it then. Three days later my daughter was in the doctor for strep throat and I was informed she needed her vacinations and thats why she went. I informed my ex that next time it’s better to play it safe because they wouldn’t be called children if they could make choices of such for themselves they’d be called adults.
I think there are no reasons whatsoever besides abuse where one parent should decide whether or not another parent can see their children. In many cases the women are lying, not all cases but many more than you could believe. My son was accused of being abusive to his kids and hasn’t seen them in 2 years. This all began when he got a new girlfriends, after the divorce. The legal system automatically believed her and my son had to go through abuse counseling, child raising counseling, supervised visitation, and over a year in court. He never got the visitation because by then my ex had the kids convinced my son was evil. He did everything the court has asked while his ex was using drugs, making money (big money) from being a paid sex escort, and who knows what else.
Today my son won his court case. But because my ex got the children to hate their father, my wife and me, she is in a dilemma and has to convince the children to see their father starting in 12 days or she is in contempt of court. The judge told her, “you created the mess so fix it” If the children do not see their father he get full custody and the mother gets supervised visitation. I give it a month and the children will be with their father. Btw, children do not run their lives the parents do.
Any parent who uses the excuse the kids do not what to see their parent are not good parents and let their kids run them. My ex honestly believe she is in the right so I have a difficult time believing any parent who makes excuses to not let their kids see the other parent. It is not up to the parent to force their relationship with the other parent on the children. Yes, even if the other parent was a deadbeat parent. Also, ANY parent that talks bad of their ex in front of the kids is a terrible parent.
Part of the problem with co-parenting is that the plans that lawyers draw up for shared custody are grey lines. They do not state in specifics what each parent gets or needs to do. Judges also share in this. They know that when two parents are not in agreement on parenting and they know that one of the parents is going to be causing problems for the other parent by not following parent plan…yet when presented to judge parent has violated the plan..nothing happens to the parent…other than a violation fee and told to comply. This continues over and over again as the parent who violates the plan continues to not pay child support, child sport fees, uniforms, school tuition etc. This is not a parent with their childs best interest at heart. But our STUPID LAWS allow this. When are our State Officials, Judges, and Lawyers going to wake up and do the right thing for the children. Forget the Parents…Do the right thing for the children.
Hi Dale. Mind if I ask what state you are in? My husband is going thru a similar situation and us getting hosed by the Guardian. Complete crap. Congrats to your son!
Sorry, but I have to call “BS” on a lot of the comments here. You think the children’s behavior described occurs in a vacuum? Did anyone posting a comment stop and think about their own behavior, and how it might affect their children? Were you never children yourselves, and did you never manipulate your own parents? Short of actual abuse, or some other criminal behavior, the non-custodial parent’s right to see their children as ordered is the same as the custodial parent.
We do not let 9-year old, 12-year old or 15-year old children run our businesses, governments or militaries, so why do we let them run our households? By that I mean, we tell them what to do around the house, we have rules and we enforce discipline when they cross the line. Court orders do not usually give decision-making rights to children; they are minors administered by the adults mentioned in the orders. So why the comments apparently elevating children’s rights to that of the adults? The State authorized the courts to settle these kind of disputes, and their wisdom is reflected in the binding orders meant to be a compromise between what each parent demands. In every other way adults follow those rules and others, but when it comes to a crying 10-year old, whatever they want suddenly trumps adult obligations and responsibilities. What the heck do tell them when they refuse to do the dishes or go to bed on a school night?
Gregory Forman is correct. Do not enable the child, and by extension the parent, by acquiescing to their doorway tantrums. You are doing yourself, your ex and the child a disservice. Parents are not authorized to overrule the court’s orders for any reason. IF there is really a problem of abuse, then there are remedies for that; USE THEM. Doctors, psychologists, police, CPS and the courts have a purpose. And if there is no abuse, family counseling and therapy can help understand why the child is acting up. Maybe it IS all in their head.
My ex, the custodial parent of our 12-year old daughter, has leveraged the onset of puberty to completely alienate me. But if you listen to her, it’s “all my fault.” I’m asked by counselors if I can change things or adjust my behavior…sure, a little. But I’ve been doing that for 11 years now; I can’t appease them anymore. I can’t be a parent if I’m not free to act like a parent. When does the focus shift back to where the problems really are, in my ex’s household? Why can’t she be forced to make changes that could actually help me have a relationship with our daughter? Maybe she needs to do more than “make her available” and “not interfere.” I’ve watched her coax carefully coached words out of our daughter in counseling. I’ve caught her in lies. She’s made decisions for my time with consulting me. I’ve listened to her impugn my credibility and watched her exceed the orders with impunity, yet I’m the “bad” guy who should just “give my daughter some space.” And if I talk to a lawyer about all this, they usually say, “well, she’s making her available and besides, the judge will see that your daughter is almost 13. The judge won’t find your ex in contempt because you can’t control a teenager.” Then they ask me for thousands of dollars to proceed anyway.
Because of my ex, I’ve lost control of my daughter. I can’t tip-toe around eggshells when she’s with me just so I don’t upset her and she yells “I’m not staying with you!” The inmate is running the asylum. I can’t give up on her either because then my ex will be free to alienate me to irrelevancy. I’m only useful as a source of child support and visitation when it suits her; I’m a token parent, deemed unworthy of respect by both my ex and our daughter. I may have been a lousy husband but I’m NOT a bad dad.
What to do, what to do?
Peter M., it’s taken quite a few trips to court for me to realize that the non-custodial parent doesn’t have any right to see his kid. The courts are tasked with looking out for the child’s right to access both parents and right to financial support. That’s all.
You might want to ask yourself if what you’re doing is looking out for your daughter’s rights or if it’s all just to get back at your ex.
Quite frankly, if in my daughter’s case it was all about me, I’d have to take a pass on all the stuff my ex has put me through.
Aaron, I appreciate your comment but disagree with at least part of it. Your realization is no doubt a result of the family law and courts in your state.
I live in Texas, and my orders state that I “have the right to possession of the child as follows.” Call it splitting hairs, but that is different than your statement of “the child’s right to access both parents.” Maybe your comment reflects the reality on the ground as opposed to the wishful thinking of lawmakers. Other remedies notwithstanding, my understanding of my orders means that I can go to court to enforce my right to see my child when the other parent does not make it happen. The cops called to mediate my recent attempts to begin possession have said as much; they do not believe my ex’s statements of “making the child available” and “I told the child she is required to go” go far enough to avoid contempt of court. My ex is clearly relying on her attorney’s advice, so the reality may be that the judges in our court consider those statements dutiful enough. Still, my daughter refuses to go with me. It appears that only an enforcement will settle the issue.
My ex would love to turn my enforcement action into a cause to effectively emancipate our nearly 13-year old daughter, at least from me. Through insidious manipulation she has essentially transferred her obligation to provide me with visitation to our daughter, who will likely have a guardian ad liteum attorney asking the court whether an unwilling child should be made to go. My ex has transformed our nearly 13-year old daughter from a child who should obey a parent into a quasi-adult who believes that she can do whatever she wants. Nowhere in our decree or orders does it state that our daughter has the right to make such decisions, but through my ex’s enablement she believes she has standing to challenge my authority (i.e., my rights) over her. This is why I said in my comment that the inmate is running the asylum; I’ve effectively lost control of my daughter.
You may read that as me trying to be dominating and overbearing, yet think of it this way: in a non-divorced household this would never be allowed. Sure, in dysfunctional marriages the child may be biased toward one or the other parent, but that does not constitute a grant of standing to challenge being with the other parent while in the same house. Parents scheming to do this must divorce and then alienate the child to create this perceived but artificial “right.”
I want to spend time with my daughter, yes. I want her to spend time with me, too. I think it is very much in her interest to spend time away from her mom, but she can’t see it because she’s been alienated against me. She has been made to forget all the opportunities for a different experience while with me. I don’t see spending time with me as getting back at my ex but my ex apparently perceives this as a threat to her self-delusion of being the only “true” parent. My ex has never considered me an equal so depriving me of visitation, one way or another, rationalizes the corruption of the relationship, and resulting alienation, between our daughter and me. So yes, in a way it IS all about “me” because right now I need to re-establish the natural balance in our Joint Managing Conservatorship.
Everybody knows divorced kids do better with two well-behaved, involved parents. Right now, my daughter is being skewed away from my beneficial influence by a co-dependent mother deluded by her own sense of superiority and infallibility. It’s my duty as my daughter’s father and dad to do what I can to shield and inoculate her from her mother’s toxic influence. And if you think I’m being paranoid, let me tell you how it will turn out if I DON’T remain involved: our daughter will eventually turn on her mother and hate her as well, to the point of wanting to live far away. How do I know this? Because I’ve known my ex’s family for 30 years and she is a clone of HER mother. My mistake is not seeing it 13 years ago.
I have a full hearing in a couple of months … and my ex didn’t even show up for the last hearing. Well, at least I got Christmas!
My daughter and I have been going to the same restaurant for months every dinner night we have together. The staff knows us and remembers us. There is NO WAY the ex didn’t get wind of this … and low and behold her and my son whom she has alienated me from elect to go to dinner at the same restaurant a couple weeks ago. She texts me during dinner and asks if we can do the exchange there instead of back at the police station (that I mandated in the temp order.) I refuse … the dinner was ruined, and my 8 year old saw them there and was very uneasy – expecting some issue. She didn’t know I knew and the poor little girl just sat silent and uneasy until they left. The ex even let my now alienated son parade past us to take the long way to the restroom.
She did this on purpose to ruin my dinner – and she sped away from the police station after dropping my daughter off to ensure she got there first. She’s a horrible person and pulls crap like this to disrupt and frustrate my visitation often.
I honestly hope you’re still reading these comments, since your original post is a few years old. I’m going to go ahead and call bullshit on you and the court system. I am SICK of the courts deciding that blood=best. Did you grow up in a split home? I highly doubt it. My mother faithfully had me visit my father until high school, when I said I absolutely would no longer go. My father was not physically abusive, but the damage from his emotional abuse still lingers and I am in my 30s. I won’t get into the details, because I really want to write about my step-son and his situation. My husband is the custodial parent and there is no visitation order. In fact, our custody order states that we determine visitation as we deem necessary/safe. You see, my step-son’s mother is a lifetime criminal, drug addict who hasn’t held a job for more than 2 months in the last decade, nor has she had a stable home and all the men she’s been with after my husband have beat her (we have photos). She was shocked when we took her to court for full custody. Only once has she attempted to take us back to court, but she dropped it because she was going back to jail before the hearing took place. She went as far as to request a guardian ad litem and then call CPS on us stating that our house was full of feces and that the child was unclean and sick from hygiene issues. I obtained a copy of the CPS report after the visits as the worker wrote that she believed it was a malicious reporting and we wanted to have the proof should we ever need to go back to court again. My step-son did want to visit her in his younger years, but she has taken him on such a roller coaster ride, I think he’s finally sick of it. Today is his 14th birthday, and yesterday he said he did not want to see her. We have no obligation by order to let her see him, so, until he wants to see her (we only give him the choice when it’s safe), he won’t. She has a hearing for her 3rd felony next week, and she has already told him that she’ll probably be going back to jail for a year or more. Oh, I’ll also say that she has another child that she still has custody of (different father who does not care), that child is 3 and has already been molested by the birth mother’s husband (yes, he is now convicted, this is not bullshit). This poor 3 year old has already lived in 10 different places (including hotels), witnessed her mother being beaten, been molested and probably more in her short life. How much shit do children have to go through because of their birth parents before they deserve a chance at a good life? We would love nothing more than to have the birth mother’s rights removed for my step-son, but basically, in our state, the birth parent has to nearly kill a child before they’ll take their rights away. So, we’re just counting down the years until he’s an adult and hoping for a long sentence for her. Birth does not equal best, I hope the courts will stop thinking that way. To say that continued contact with a birth parent is always in the best interest of a child is utter BULLSHIT.
I do still read these comments and your comment inspired two blogs: It’s called vigilantism and Remedying the visitation of an emotionally abusive parent.
I am very sorry to read about your problematic relationship with your father. I think you misread this blog as I never wrote that, “continued contact with a birth parent is always in the best interest of a child.” I do not believe this to be the case. However, while it is likely that you accurately report an emotionally abusive relationship with your father, my experience–and the experience of others–is that you may have been the victim of a mother who alienated you from your father. When custodial parents resort to unilateral withholding of visitation it is hard to determine why the child is alienated from the non-custodial parent. However, from the perspective of the child in these situations, it is the non-custodial parent who is the problem.
Either way you clearly suffered from abuse as a child and I hope you find healing.
Just to clarify, I wasn’t really quoting you in regards to the birth parent being the best interest of the child, but stating an opinion based on my experiences. And no, my mother did not alienate me. She never said a bad thing about my father, and in fact, still encourages me to reach out to him in the hopes that it would give me closure. She did not stop visitation until I chose to stop in high school. He also did not attempt to have me visit after I stopped going. I did reunite with him for a short time in my college years, only to learn that he was exactly the same person I perceived him to be as a child. I’ll read your other blogs, thanks for the response.
The system is grossly flawed – my x got default custody of my teen daughter he hasn’t seen in years & the new judge won’t view her councilors notes on abuse so I went go jail for contmempt when I have never done anything wrong but try to serve a status quo to protect my baby. She is 15 and I can’t see her AT ALL because that’s what he put in the order he served my po box knowing we were in Cali with my cousin. God SAVE me.
18 months ago my son went to his dad’s for the weekend. Ten minutes before it was time to pick him up. His dad called and said “he won’t be coming home. He doesn’t want to live with you, he has major issues and problems with you, but I can’t tell you what these are as I told him I wouldn’t, you need to speak to him” my son was barely 11 yrs old.
I called my son. He wouldn’t tell me of any issues or problems. All he would say when I asked why he wasn’t coming home was “because. I just wanna stay here for awhile” up until then he was with his dad 6 out of every 14 days for 7 years! No court orders. Just an agreement between us. Bad mistake there. My ex changed his schools so that I couldn’t go pick my child up from school, wouldn’t tell me what these issues were. Nothing. I went to court and sought a recovery order and interim orders. In the first court date my ex stood up and accused me of child abuse! I have never once laid a hand in my child ever!! In fact the reason I left him is because he was physically abusive and an alcoholic. He accused me of being a drug addict, alcoholic, abusive, always yelling at my child. None of which was true. After 6 months of court we finally agreed in mediation that my son will visit me every 2nd weekend from Thursday afternoon til Monday morning, one Wednesday night a month and half the holidays. My ex and I also had to see a court ordered therapist. Everything was fine in the next 12 months. No issues. His father and I spoke regarding his xmas presents so we don’t double up, schooling etc. he even reported to the therapist 9 weeks ago everything is fine. I saw my son on Monday night for my bday as per orders, dropped him at exchange place at 9pm on 30/11/15.
Two days later my ex sends me a msg saying “he doesn’t want to see you. He won’t be coming this weekend, he has major issues with you that you need to talk to him about” and yet again will not say anything else besides “he will not be seeing you and I don’t care if I’m not following orders it’s in his best interests. I know my rights and he knows his rights. The orders do not mean you see him it’s only if he wants to” he refused to turn up for the next exchange. Sent me a text saying he would not be there. I spoke to my son and asked what the issues are. His reply is “I just wanna stay here for awhile” with no other reasons. He was not sent to school on the days o would usually pick him up he was kept home with his dad. I spoke to my son again and he said to me “well once I’m 13 I can live wherever I want and that’s only a few months away so yeh” the last time we went to court he said “mum hit me when I was a baby but I don’t remember it but dad told me about it ” and things like that. His dad is filling his head with stories like this and no one at the courts cared. I will now not be seeing my son until at least February next year as courts are closing for the xmas break. I am worried as I am a good parent. I work. I pay my child support. I attend everything my son does. I have never said anything bad about his father in his presence. But his father will now have another few months to turn my son against me. What do I do???
Mj, that sounds a lot like what I’m going through now. (See my comments and replies.) You could try an enforcement action to compel visitation, but you need money to hire a lawyer and even if you win that probably won’t change your son’s mind. Even if you’re in the right, the cops won’t force the child into your car, and you shouldn’t try that either (if your son is as strong as my daughter, you can’t do it without really hurting them, which is a CPS case and restraining order just waiting to happen). You can hope that after several contempt rulings the judge will throw your ex in jail, but even that may not get the kid in the car. Kids can be awfully stubborn, and if you can’t get them to come with you, you can’t get them to a therapist for treatment.
I don’t know what to do, either. I don’t want to spend thousand and and thousands of dollars on seemingly endless legal battles. I wish I had more encouraging words for you.
Greg,
My husband had 4 son’s with his ex and the courts gave him custody of the oldest 2 and she got custody of the youngest. We got married 6 mo after they divorced and they moved in with me and my 3 kids. His ex has been a hoarder for 30 years and since the divorce she moved into a smaller home and started her hoarding again. The boys would tell us that after visiting with us thier mother gives them the third degree, and constantly question them about what happens at our home and tells them that thier father doesn’t give a crap about them or he wouldn’t have left. She has called CPS on us multiple times with false allegations of abuse, molestation etc…all lies and found to be unsubstantiated.
The older boys were 15 & 17 when we got them and due to thier mothers hoarding issues and “OCD claims”, refusing to clean the house, wash thier clothing or let them use the washer, and complaints of physical, mental and emotional abuse from her while thier father was at work absolutely refused to have anything to do with her. They are now 28 and 30 and still refuse to have anything to do with her and do not let her near thier children.
The younger boys are now 17 and 19 and we have been back and forth to court since they were 4 and 6. The 19 year old finally got away from her and moved across the country, the 17 year old is disabled and she now recieves his disability checks so she doesn’t want him to go anywhere. The home she has was recently sold and she has no where to go. She calls us constantly demanding that we should give her money to help even though my husband still pays her 753.00 a month for support and we supply his clothing. We just won a judgement in Sept ending her Alimoney of 11 years. We have spent thousands on Atty fees fighting to prove that she was neglecting the boys and the most the courts have ever done was give us temporary guardianship until she had pathways in her home so the kids wouldnt burn inside if the house caught fire. The 17 year old sleeps in her bed because his was used as a litter box for cats. The home looks exactly like the municipal dump. Toilet doesn’t work, shower is broken, electricity in the kitchen doesn’t work. The kid doesn’t even know what normal is because he was born and raised in the filth.
I just wanted to let other families know what we have gone through for the past 12 years. The courts don’t really care what the custodial parent or non-custodial parent does to these kids. They only care that both parents see the kids not whether the parents are actually capable of being decent parents, but when the kids become teenagers and start displaying behavior issues because of one they blame the other. We got the boys counseling, spent a fortune in court and went into debt for nothing. No matter how many CPS substantiated cases of abuse, neglect and physical harm we had against her the judge still gave them back to her.
The best outcome that we have had in court was getting supervised visits with her during the year it took her clear pathways so she could get them back and not having to pay her atty fees during the last 4 years. We teach the boys that it’s important who you have sex with because you never know what kind of crazy ex you might wind up sharing your child with.
My ex was awarded temporary custody pending mediation to establish custody over two years ago and was recently awarded a garnishment of my wages for child support of which no hearing was ever served upon me. I have a lawyer who is attempting to get this thrown out, but in the mean time I have lost my home and my job due to the financial trauma, and I still do not get to see my 3 teenage daughters all due to the systematic brainwashing by my ex which caused them to sign elections and a bogus therapist who agreed that the children should not be forced to see me because I would make them feel “uncomfortable” for showing favoritism towards my ex and his family. My current attorney agrees with you about making them see me, although my first attorney was no help in this matter and went along with everything the opposing counsel tried to do initially. My question would be in reguards to the amount of time that has passed in the interim. We were to continue counseling which neither party did, I have been making a sorry attempt at moving on with my life and realize I have been having a nervous breakdown this entire time, but regardless of the 15 years which I raised them on my own, my lawyer thinks these two years without contact doesn’t bode well for my chances of getting the right to visitation instated. And what about the total distruction of my life which this flight of fancy on my children’s part has caused. This all has seemed so far from justice it is sickening.
I think you’re absolutely on point. Sadly, my husband hasn’t seen his children for four years. As a revenge tactic, the custodial parent filed a restraining order stating that he is abusive and that they did not want contact (they were 12, 13, 15, 17 at the time). After two,10 minute hearings, The Magistrate vacated the RO, but ruled they didn’t have to have contact if they didn’t want to and she further ruled he could not contact them. My husband was and is a tremendously supportive Dad and a steadfast provider. Since my husband was not allowed to initiate contact, he didn’t. The kids now believe that he abandoned him. Terribly sad stuff. We remain an actively blended family with mine and ours. My children, my husband and I have a very positive relationship with my ex-husband and his wife and my kids are proof that recognizing two parents and encouraging healthy relationships makes for well adjusted human beings. I have always thought my children would be mentally healthier if I encouraged rather than discouraged a relationship with him. Of course, while we don’t always agree in approach, he is a good and loving father and man and I am mature enough to recognize that as an equal parent, he also has a right to make decisions for our children.
I have been searching through for some kind of answer and I am instead coming up completely short. Everything I read encourages me to “force” my children to uphold their court-ordered visitation with their father. Just to offer a little insight, all three of my children (9-year-old boy and two girls ages 11 and 13) have the same father. We split approximate 4 years ago. Despite the messy split (he was good to the kids but extremely abusive to me both physically and verbally) I tried to remain friends with him for the sake of the kids. My mother forced me to grow up without my biological father. I didn’t have the chance to meet him until I was 15 and he has been a great father. I wanted my children to have their father in their lives. My husband (together 3 1/2 years, married for half a year) has been a great father figure, but he is in no way trying to replace their father. Since their father and I were not married, we did not go to court when we split. Instead, we verbally agreed to a 50/50 custody arrangement that involved the kids going back and forth every other week. My ex would continually have various troubles, reasons why he couldn’t assist me with things the kids needed (medical bills, clothes, school supplies, etc.) Instead, he would constantly borrow money from my husband and I for gas. I even purchased him a used car at one point because his broke down and he said he needed one to find a job so he could better care for the kids. Back in April, he met a woman and fell in love. I was happy for him. The kids, not so much. However, I told my kids to keep an open mind and an open heart. In order to convince my kids to be accepting of the new woman in their father’s life, I tried to befriend her and show them that working together was the only way to make the co-parenting situation work. Three weeks after meeting this woman, my ex asked her to marry him. Strange, but again, I was happy for him. I told the kids that having two moms and two dad could be a very excellent thing because it was more love to go around, but the kids were just very uncomfortable. I noticed that my ex became increasingly hateful toward my children and I. I tried talking to him, but it was to no avail. The kids would come home crying and very upset over the way their father treated them. Finally, the beginning of August, the kids begged me not to send them back. They showed me marks that they had where their father had hit them. He had been hitting them, jerking them around by the arms, dragging them by their feet, pulling their hair, and even throwing them down to the ground. He threatened to choke them, put their heads through a wall, and called them terrible names. I tried talking to him yet again but he denied it all and then took his anger out on them for telling me. After that, I went to the sheriff’s office seeking help. The deputy sheriff spoke with the kids privately and agreed the situation was extremely concerning. I was advised to visit our local Department for Children and Families (DCF) and to go to the courthouse and fill out a PFA on behalf of the kids. I did as instructed. DCF did not open a case against him and instead looked at my children as though they were completely crazy. My oldest daughter even informed DCF that her father was smoking pot and had done so in front of her and even tried to get her to smoke it with him. When we met in court the beginning of September over the PFA, the judge granted my ex supervised visitation one night a week and every other weekend under the watchful eye of his parents. Unfortunately, his parents had been witness to the past abuse and were angry with my children for telling on their father. The kids would come home from their visits and cry. They would tell me that their father and their father’s parents would treat them badly, call them names, and make them feel like crap for saying anything about what happened. Just before we went back to court the beginning of this month, my oldest daughter pulled me aside and begged me not to make her go back to her father’s. She said that he had been recently coming into the bathroom while she takes a shower and opening the curtain to either talk to her or just stare at her. She also said that he has grabbed her leg up near her private area, but not actually touched her there. She also said that her, her sister, and her brother had been forced to change in front of each other and in front of their father. When we went back to court, the judge was very quick to usher us right back out of the court room. Both their father and I went pro se because we could not afford the legal representation. Their father has not had a job in the last 9 years and my husband and I have been buried trying to ensure we keep up with all of the things the kids need without the help of their father. Therefore, we didn’t even have a chance to tell the judge about the allegations my oldest had raised about her father. Instead, supervision was lifted and he is to continue with his one day a week and every other weekend visits. Ever since the court date, my ex and his parents have been verbally harassing and threatening us. The kids are terrified and my oldest is extremely nervous and uncomfortable. None of them want to visit with their father and yet I am being told I could be held in contempt of court if I do not force them into a potentially dangerous situation. I have absolutely no clue what to do and yet everything I read seems to lean toward the fact that a CP HAS to force the child to visit their NCP otherwise they are a bad parent that can be punished. If he were a good father who did not HURT his children, I would have no problem with that. That is why I agreed to the 50/50 in the first place. I am not the vindictive type. I agree that children need both parents in their lives. But I am concerned for my children’s safety and I am currently backed up against the wall with no help and advice to guide me in the best way to proceed.
Gregory Forman I call bullsh*** on you
hope your still following
I was child of divorce as I look back on it there is a lot of things people don’t consider. I wasn’t forced to see my dad he was good to me but I really didn’t like going to his house I did regular visits until junior high were I told them I didn’t want to go as much most the time I tell him no he respected my decision he remembered what it was like being a teen.
when I was little playing at his house I want to play with something that was at home mom let me bring anything I wanted but you cant take everything. the kids around my dads were ok but since I didn’t go to school with them I was still a bit of out sider never was close to any of them. I do remember missing friends and family’s Bdays or come home and hear about something cool that happened while I was gone not being able to spend night at friends or have friends stay with me.
I had my own room at dads but it was more of a guest room in my eyes. dad lived over a hr away hated that ride the older I got also settling in at his place unpacking answering same questions over and over if step mom didn’t come when he picked me up how was your week anything exciting happen I wasn’t abused or missed treated never slept as well there it just wasn’t home. I think part of it was dads side of family was older dad was 15 years older than mom so my cousins on his side were not my age so i was closer to moms side of family. As my teen years hit I wanted spend more time with my friends and dint forget the girlfriend my dad was cool about it. the older I got more time was about being with a girlfriend than being around either parent. I know if I was forced to go to dads I would of had attitude all weekend that wouldn’t been fun for no one any one who has or had a teen should be able to relate. I would of grown resentful for being kept from friends kids can hold a grudge.
I am divorced have 14 year old son I am custodial parent but I dint have to deal with the visitation his mother hasn’t had contact for over 8 years.
I have gave it some thought what if he did have to go see his mom now and she didn’t live here and was a hr or more away.
It would restrict his life he wouldn’t be able to play sports since they practice sat mornings starting between 6 am and 7 am, they also practice on holiday breaks. I know you say he could miss them of them of coarse the coach would have to let him but it would affect his starting position on foot ball what he could do in other sports. what about when we go to state on weekends sorry son has to go to moms and she cant bring him here to catch bus or if she could think about his sleep before match Sports are very big here in the school and town.
Then there is scouts witch is Wednesday night and they have events meetings camp outs on weekends.
my son also goes to church his choosing I go with him some time she started going with a friend.
schools have gotten so demanding between home work extra activities and sports most of children’s socializing time is weekends at least for my son it is.
this would be a lot of life experiences to deprive my son of so his mom could see him.
A lot of you parents are forgetting what it was to be a teen and thinking more of what you want.
Do you really want to force your teen to be with you that will only breed resentment, hate and that god awful teen attitude. Even if it the other parent is behind them not wanting to see you that parent will look as the victim and make sure the teen knows you are one forcing it.
Then again it just might be a teen being a teen. Just keep loving your child and keep trying to keep line of communication open even if its just one way cards mail email. They will make up their own mind in the end even if its once their an adult. I know as a kid I would blame the parent I was forced to spend time with.
Gregory Forman being a teen is stressful enough with out being forced to see some one they don’t want to. yes we make them go to school eat right brush teeth don’t let them do drugs drink and so on,
we do that for their health and well being.
yes some of the parents are behind them not wanting to go but forcing them will only make that parent the victim and the non-custodial parent the bad guy. Teens might be kids but in their minds they know everything, forcing them to go will put them in the mind set that its going to suck and it will cause they will make it that way.
Your job should be to prove its the custodial parent behind it and work on getting the child help counseling to find out why.
Like with me I just didn’t want to go my dad respected that and I didn’t close off communication with him I know i would of if I was forced.
Ken Nodal, if you hadn’t written that you are divorced with a 14-year old son, I would say you sound like a selfish, self-entitled millennial brat. Most of the reasons you give for not visiting your dad, the non-custodial parent, sound like the laundry-list of complaints my daughter and her mother give me for refusing to visit. Uh hello, teenagers are still legally kids and do NOT have the authority to just blow off the other parent because they don’t feel like going over there or it cramps their style. Kids are being allowed to exploit the situation by the custodial parent who wouldn’t dare say no their precious little angel.
You do bring up valid concerns regarding activities and friends. The child stays with the custodial parent most of the time and it is that home that is the center of their lives. Extra-curricular activities don’t follow a non-custodial schedule, so if a child can’t participate because of who they’re with that weekend it can be frustrating. But that’s where the two parents have an opportunity to discuss what the child wants to do and work out a compromise. It may be that a compromise means that not everything on the list can be done; it may mean saying “no” to the child about some activity. So tell me Ken, why does that make the non-custodial parent the “bad guy” in the relationship? Ever thought that the custodial parent’s scheduling of activities on the non-custodial parent’s weekend WITHOUT discussing it with them is just a setup to make the other parent look bad? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told my ex to NOT schedule stuff on my weekend without discussing it with me first to make sure I can bring our daughter. Not that it’s ever stopped her, of course. I can’t tell you how many of my weekend activities I’ve had to reschedule or cancel because my ex planned something for our daughter without getting my buy-in first. This includes school and social events. The vast majority of the time I just give in and accommodate her, but this sets the precedent that I am not truly free to do things that I want with our daughter. It shows a lack of respect for me and my role as a dad. And when we do get into it about “no, sorry, you can’t go,” *I’M* the d!ck of a dad who won’t let his daughter “do anything.” And just so you know, I’m the same d!ck of a dad who provides a more-or-less equal home for his daughter, with all the accommodations and distractions that kids use to ignore their non-custodial parent. She even has her own friends in my neighborhood. And I tell her that I love her and can’t wait to see her again. But I do have rules, and she has responsibilities at her other “home.” I guess this is enough for her to tell me FO when I insist she come for her visitation as ordered.
Ken, I will point out that you never praise your dad in your comment. Oh sure, he was “good” to you, never abused or mistreated you, and let you bring over stuff from your mom’s house so you could have familiar things in your own room. That doesn’t seem like it was enough for you, though. But this leads me to believe that your mom set expectations for your visits unreasonably high, unfairly contrasting the Shangri-La you were forced to leave so you could spend 48 pissed-off hours without your friends at your dad’s boring house. I guess you never noticed your mother manipulating you against your dad. It didn’t have to be verbal. She probably never said “no” to you and gave you everything you wanted. Your dad sounds a lot like me: he did his best but because it interfered with your social life, and his familial relationships didn’t line with your expectations, you chose to jettison your dad from your life like something inconvenient. Your comment has little, if any, empathy for your dad. You go on about your feelings but never mention his. And you don’t mention anything about your current relationship with him now; is he a good grandpa? Did the two of you ever go to counseling, an option you bring up as a way for parents and kids to better understand each other? I’ll speculate and say no, because your own speculation about your son’s potential visitation with his mother doesn’t indicate that you’ve learned anything about the role of the non-custodial parent. You put the proverbial cart before the horse by writing that your son’s activities trump the proven benefit of the child spending time with BOTH parents. You’ve written-off your son’s potential relationship with his mother as being inconvenient. You mention nothing of what she has to offer. If that isn’t selfish, I don’t know what is. I find it incredibly ironic that you learned from YOUR mother.
Ken, I have to agree a little with Peter M. I don’t know your situation beyond what you shared. Yes you shared some valid points, but it is easy to tell non-custodial parents to conduct themselves when you yourself are not a non-custodial parent.
Let me ask you this. Suppose you were the non-custodial where your kids were kept from you since they were 6, 8, 10 or 12 years old and were told that you would kidnap them if you ever saw them, your ex discusses child support with the kids and convinces them you you are a danger and everything you say or do should be questioned. If that was not bad enough she would refuse you court ordered visitation or communication and her new boyfriend says he wants to F*$# your 12 yo daughter. Would you be passive and dismissive where you give in to whatever they say or ask? Would you file for a contempt of court for her failure to abide by the court order?
As Peter said, kids take advantage of the situation and as a parent YOU are here to raise them regardless the age provided they are minors by the law. Yes there is flexibility, but no kids do not make the rules as that is your job as a parent; married, divorced, custodial or non-custodial. Parenting is about training your kids to make proper decisions so they have the tools deemed necessary as adults.
As I stated not all of what you said is bad, I just think that maybe a full scope of the situation has not been taken into account.
I hope the best for you, your son and the other parent. I pray that he never has to experience a divorce personally as it would be a second brokenness. May you have a great Christmas.
Peter M No I didn’t praise my father also I didn’t praise my mom they were my parents I loved them both didn’t have resentment for my father he was a great man. both my parents were there for me when I needed them. I still talked to my dad several times a week same as when I saw him every weekend. As an adult I probably called dad more than I did mom.
It wasn’t about who I liked best It was as a teen it felt more like a interruption and a chore to go, as a teen I was wanting more Independence not more mom time more dad time. I also didn’t mention I had jobs as a teen I couldn’t have worked weekends If i was forced to go to dads. As I said my dad respected my decision and understood why I didn’t want to go he knew I loved him.
My parents passed before my son was born they would of been great grandparents at least in my opinion.
Peter as learning from my mother I learned from both my parents and from what I am told I am just like my father.
Teens are legally a kid but they are not children we start to let them go places by them selves we let them stay out later let them decide what clothes they wear how they wear their hair classes they want to take we give them more responsibility. With all these decisions we let them make why can’t they have a say whether they spend time at the other parents house.
I have read alot on this I see alot of parents who play with there kids heads But some times its just one parent thinking its that way. that is when a parent needs to talk to there teen or get out side help a consoler find out whats really going on. I Also see parents who are just butt hurt their kid don’t want to spend time with them.
Even in a house were parents are not divorced some teens don’t want to hang with their parents and rather be with friends.
There also are alot of parents both (custodial and non-custodial) who hold resentment hate toward the other parent and feel the other parent is always at fault.
Cal as your example you gave I call that mental abuse and would get my kids help and get it documented and fight tooth and nail.
when Ifirst divorced my ex he spent every weekend with her till she started being busy and slowly started to cancel till they stopped and disappeared.
Ken, I agree with you and if (big IF) the parents are amicable what you point out works correctly. The unfortunate thing is that is the exception to the reality. Most people in a divorce with children are so bitter with the ex that they enter into some form of interference or to a greater extreme of alienation. My case is 6 years of wickedness from my ex and the kids are affected greatly whether they understand it or not. I cannot go into the details but after judge 3 was brought in from state 2 in hearing (roughly) 30, the judge told my ex that she needs to be amicable and that the kids need their dad in their lives and when they get older they will want to spend less time with either parent as they want to do their own thing. She continued “with that said, if you (my ex), if you continue to not allow their father in their lives it will be the responsibility of the court to force the visitation and allow him to make that flexibility necessary for them. I don’t like to go down that road but the wrongs need to be righted.”
I understand that sounds extreme but she is right. When a parent interferes with a relationship with a parent/child extreme measures must be taken. It is similar to anything with bad habits (obesity, drugs, alcohol or abuse). It requires that what is creating the damage must be remedied in an extreme fashion and in some instances those things are permanently removed while others are temporarily removed and brought back in with limitations base on matters of self control. In PA I don’t necessarily believe any parent should ever be removed from some contact with their kids but there may be a need for temporary remedy or different levels of contact that could be enhanced for less restrictions based on what steps a parent needs to do to improve the relationship but never complete severing of a relationship as they are minors as kids need both parents for different reasons.
Greg, right on with this article. My ex is the type that “let’s the kids decide” and is disobeying the court orders. She’s even blaming his therapist to try and get away with custodial interference. I’ve been shut out of his life for over 2 years now through numerous efforts on her part, and she’s trying to completely terminate my visitation (legally, she already did it physically). Children are taught to fear and comply, then they “get to decide”. It works.
I find it interesting that the majority of the commenters are those who do the same as my ex.
Just a thought.
My ex stopped seeing my kids completely 2 years ago. He even failed to go to see his 17 son year old at the ICU at the hospital. This child is 18 already. But my daughter is now 17 and since I did a modification he filed a contempt on me for not allowing him to see his children. Off course i proved on the court that was not true. I saved text messages. (Kiss my phone) The thing now is that his lawyer ask for timesharing and was granted. I ask for exchanges to happen in the police station and i showed up with my daughter. She didnt want to get out of the van so i called the police and after talking to her, the police documented and let us go. I want my daughter to tell the judge why she didnt want to see her dad but his lawyer got in between saying she is a minor when he saw her there. My daughter is in counseling for anxiety, PTSD, panick attacks and suicidal thoughts. Am I going to be found in contempt for this?
I call BS on almost everyone here. Why should your kids have to shuffle around because you make bad decision? Why should they have to have sleep in different beds, haul their junk from place to place, leave their friends? Are you okay with moving from place to place each week? What happens if you forget your favorite jeans at your other parent’s house but desperately need them for the party of the century? Oh right, teenage superficial problems. You all suck.
Your life is so messed up that you need a stranger to make decisions for you! Maybe your minor children should be making all of your decisions. You messed up and now you expect your kids to dance to your tune. They weren’t the ones who married a wicked psycho who you now can’t even work with to do the best for something as important as children.
If you expect teenagers to suffer by your bad decisions with a smile, good luck. You are a tool and you are getting everything you deserve. A couple hundred years ago your 15 year old would have been a mother or father already. If your kid is smart they will use all the loopholes available to them. After all, they are not a party to your lame divorce decree, and you are just treating them like property.
When my parents divorced I went to my father’s, not because I wanted to but because they were both strict and I did not talk back. While Dad was building his new house for his new wife, we stayed with Uncle L. I was nine. I was molested by creepy Uncle L. Luckily my parents found out and believed me when a neighbor came forward. But my Dad somehow blamed me. He’s an incredible emotionally abusive, pompous ass.
I started working at 13 (babysitting) and at 14 I got a real job in a nursing home kitchen. By the time I was 16 I had decent money saved and I didn’t want to go to my father’s house and I was more than capable of eating my vegetables without being told. So I ran away. Since I was a good student, not a “youth in crisis” and never got in trouble so this was quite a shock. I didn’t run far (the house of my friend who’s parents were away for the weekend). But when the police found me they confirmed what I already knew. Ha. Ha. The police can’t really do anything severe to a sixteen year old runaway. I agreed to come back to my Mom’s. At first everyone was happy. After all, no good parent wants their kid out on some ratchet street doing meth and turning tricks. But then Dad tried to call some kind of legal/contempt BS on my mom just to be a prick So I ran away again, for longer, just to make sure there was no misunderstanding. I missed two days of school. The school counselor acted like it was a code red. I was an honor student, a prior abuse victim. I agreed to come back only if my Dad would leave me alone. He did. Everyone played by my rules. They all knew I would really leave forever if needed. And I think my Dad feared I would somehow expose his true character. Some jerk lawyer tried to throw down some crap about emancipation. Another talked about counseling and documenting all the abusive situations with my Dad. Anything to keep the billable hours going for them while I wallowed in misery.
In the end I got what I wanted. I am not property to be divided. So I made the legal system work for me. I don’t care what the courts say about minor children, teenagers deserve the right to have a say in their living arrangements. Within a few years they will be adults on their own. If you have to force someone to be with you how could you find any joy in that? You have to be their parents for the rest of their lives not just until 18. Do you think they won’t resent you? I refused to play by rules I did not agree to. My advice for kids – take control if you truly don’t want to keep living in misery. If you can’t run away, at least get your own lawyer. A real lawyer. The guardian ad litem is just the court appointed cog looking for a paycheck. And by the way, the teenage runaway theme was pure college essay gold.
Now that I am an adult I actually have a good relationship with both my parents. I call and visit them because I want to not because I am forced.
For as long as parents are legally responsible for what their kids do, kids need to do what they are told. Period. Advocating angry kids run away is immature and irresponsible.
Parents don’t lose their time with their kids simply because the kids have something “better” to do. They and their psycho mother are cashing my checks, demanding gifts from grandparents they ignore, and then claiming that they have “rights.” You have rights when you’re paying your own way, kiddos.
Sorry – non-abusive, non-custodial parents should not have to forfeit being a part of their kids lives because the other parent alienates them. Fortunately, one of my kids is smarter than her mother and sees through it all. I monitor their calls and it’s one alienating question after another. Good luck denying it in court in March. But, my daughter tells her nothing about her time with us … just keeps mum and lies to her. Sad a kid has to do that … I have told her repeatedly she can tell her mother everything she sees, hears, and does – and she chooses not to. My daughter on the other hand feels completely comfortable telling me her goings-on at home. You went to see your grandma? Awesome! Did you have fun? Great! You went swimming? How long can you stay under?
When psycho ex calls my daughter, it’s “Are they ignoring you?”, “Is daddy playing with you?”, “Did daddy work today? Who did you stay with?”, “What did you have for supper?”, “What time did you go to bed?”, “Are you at daddy’s house now?”, “Is daddy in the room with you now?”, “Did he make you go to church again?” and so on.
In spit of the interrogation, my daughter is excited to come here and enjoys her time. My old child – not so much. Totally alienated … wants to stay with his Borderline mother because she spoils the crap out of him. Hope he realizes that nearly two years later, she still has no job and I am still paying for her cigarettes. She contributes nothing, and blatantly takes credit for the support I provide.
So, my high schooler is allowed to avoid me because honestly he’d make us all miserable if forced to visit. He gets that from his mother – if you don’t get your way, make everyone miserable and complain about how no one appreciates and understands you. Then create drama for everyone to see. Irony is he use to complain to me about her when she acted like that – embarrassing him in front of his friends. Now, I am blamed by him for everything she did.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I’m wondering if you were married to the same woman as my fiancee.
My 12-year-old daughter woke up to her dad masturbating next to the bed that she and her sister were sleeping in.
Her father verbal admitted to me that he has a sexual sleep disorder called sexsomnia. That he had on multiple occasions been told by other people of committing such an act. That he has no control, recollection or these acts and further, that he has know about them for two years.
I reported to CPS, the court, my daughter reported to therapist. Guess what? He denies it and I have no “proof” unless the judge allows my daughter to testify.
So, while waiting for our trial (possible months from now) should I force them to visit their father overnight per COURT ORDERS, or be held in contempt for protecting my children?
By the way, the friend of the court caseworker called BS on me for letting my daughter decide not to go and likened the “incident” to “not abnormal for kids to walk in on their parents during sex.”
So, I’m calling BS on the ENTIRE SYSTEM claiming to have children’s safety and health as a priority.
Michigan mother, I am concerned about the account you stated and there are other legal recourses you can take BUT I strongly suggest that your facts and information is 100% spot on. I am an advocate that all parents should have a right to visitation and communications with their children, yet in some cases there may need to be restricted access to a parent either by sexual or physical abuse especially if convicted.
Now with that said, if it were me I would file a police report then an emergency restraining order for child endangerment. Both of these issues fast track the problem and must be heard by a judge within 72 hours (minus weekends/holidays). If you want you can always file for a modification of visitation or ask for a court appointed GAL. Remember Newtons Law applies with every filing (with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction). Be careful of being unreasonable yet be a parent who protects the best interest of your children. Make sure your facts are true and you find some common ground if you decide to proceed forward with anything and make sure to talk to your lawyer.
My daughter is 7yrs old and her father drinks alot in front of her and has gotten into street fights covered in blood.. gets drunk and starts punching holes in walls in front of her… refuses to help support her in anyway even being court ordered.. he has 2 other children that want nothing to do with… she has stated many times she doesn’t wanna talk to him or see hom because she is scared.. i currently have a protective order against him because he can be very violent… i dont want to force her to go… what should i do?
If my daughter, who has only met her father once and whose father has made it clear he wants nothing do with her or me, doesn’t want to see him then I’m going to make damn well sure I do not enforce the law on her if a judge was to order joint custody. If a child is UNCOMFORTABLE with a parent then something is definitely WRONG. Its not bullshit its a major factor to consider in the case. The non custodial can visit the child(ren) at the custodial parent’s home with supervision if they feel they want to visit. But NEVER force a child to go to a home and or location where they feel unsafe and or uncomfortable. I speak as responsible parent whose not afraid of facing a judge and telling it like it is. I’d much rather be held for contempt for protecting my child than dealing with lawyers like you.
When what you fear actually happens let me know.
Well said Mr. Forman. Sounds like another chicken-hawk mom who’s never been forced to experience the consequences of her words and actions. Being confined in the county jail for up to 180 days should be something to fear.
My husband has 3 children from two previous marriages, ages 25, 18 and 16. His 16 year old is considered to be a teenager out of control. Skipping school, sex, drugs, bullying and assault to name a few. She assaulted her mother last year and was institutionalized for psych review. They determined her to be bipolar (which her father is) and began medical treatment.
Last summer she asked to come for a visit (we are in Connecticut) during school vacation for 10 days. After returning to her home (Massachusetts), she called and wrote begging to come live with us. I was very skeptical of her as she is a high maintenance kid. However, I ended up relenting and allowed her into our home.
Now she has friends and specifically a boyfriend. has decided she doesn’t want to take the medicine anymore nor go to counselling. She was being grounded for skipping school and could not make it past day 3 before she broke curfew. We then implemented the no friends over rule as permanent because we could not get her to comply with the grounding rules, she decided to not return home after going to a friends home.
She is staying at the mother of a 13 yr old friend of hers who lives directly across the street from her boyfriends house (very bad neighborhood). We have tried to get her to come home but she refuses and says she is never coming home. We have found out that this woman (single mother) has done this before to teenagers (was a foster mom) and has a notorious reputation for doing this confirmed by the Juvenile court here.
What should we do? Right now we have not involved DCF hoping that without giving her $$ she will force the daughter out of her home and she would have no choice but to come home. We believe this woman to be attempting to profit from a naive teenager.
I am not sure if she will be granted any support by the court system as my husband has joint custody and their is no support agreement attached to it (he has a spotty work history due to his illness and is not currently employed).
I am hoping this woman is between a rock and a hard place. My husband and I provide a much better environment than she does. This woman is despicable letting teenagers run her house, smoking pot and having sex!! There is very little adult supervision in the home. And this is a person who is approved to be a foster parent?????!!!! Screwed up system!
Anyone got any suggestions or knows if she has a case?
My daughter gets visitation with her daughter. Her ex has custodial custody. For the last year and a half they have ignored our phone calls, texts, and mail/cards to my granddaughter. So finally at Christmas he let her talk to us on the phone. Then meet at a pizza place to exchange gifts. He also informed us that she doesn’t want to see us or come over. But when I talk to her she says her step mom blocks mine and my daughters phone number. He.states he let’s her make her own decions. But I ask if she wants to come over she says I’ll ask and then she says dad said no….who is making the decision. So yesterday I confronted the step mom and she stated it’s her decions and made my granddaughter tell me this. My granddaughter said it is to overwhelming. …what to see your mom and other siblings or me. When I told the step mom she tells me she wants to see us and then she says no around yall. What is going on. …also they dont.like the person my daughter is married to (biracial ) and her. Isn’t against the law for him to hold her visits? ??? But he will be the first to report no child support